Warbird Information Exchange

Here's my suggestion:

We could just fund the recovery of the B-29s in lake Meade and Alaska.

1) We would secure the help of the USAM (Doc people) in the restoration efforts. They would get the Lake Meade B-29 to use for parts for Doc. They could restore it to flying when Doc is done.
2) We could offer the B-29 in Alaska (fully restored when Doc is completed) to the Air Force if they were to provide the recovery equipment, C-5 shipment, etc.
3) the USAM would pay us back (the money we would provide would be considered a loan) when the money from Doc comes in (assuming it flys in airshows).

That way, there would be more preserved B-29s, more flyable ones, and we would be the ones responsible for this whole thing coming about.

Also, the Meade B-29 would be able to be shipped overseas (think Europe, UK, NZ, Australia, etc).

That sounds good. Give it a whirl..

The first thing you have to do to get to the Lake Meade B-29 is get past the National Park Service. I won't say it would be impossible but you would probably be better off if you were dealing with the U.S. Navy.

_________________
It's you and me against the world.

We attack at dawn.

Rob, all of them need to be stripped to get it restored, so it wouldn't matter. Also, you wouldn't want all that bulky obsolete crap in the guts of the bird anyway. ie-big heavy full turrets, instead just partial ones, etc.

Granted I'll admit that the Weeks B-29 would be easier on the wallet I suppose, Because you're not dealing with recovery cost. But in the end I think that both B-29s need to be recovered instead of being left to rot or soak as it were. Actually it would be really nice to see the Lake Meade B-29 brought to the surface. Seems like the conditions are right she she be pretty well preserved, aside from the structural damage.

Shay

Rob,

It doesn't matter:

The guts of a flying B-29 are negligible. They are a lot of instrument panels and stuff like that. Saying a B-29 is stripped doesn't mean much.

My grandpa flew them, and I have seen pictures of the entire inside and out. You don't need most of that military crap.

Chris

As a collector/restorer of said "crap," I take offense to that!

Seriously guys, if you're going after a B-29, you better pray most of that "crap" is still in it! I hunt -29 parts literally everyday, and believe me when I tell you they are not easy to find! Otherwise, what the hell is the point of restoring one to begin with, if it's just going to be an empty shell? There will be no "partial turrets" on my B-29, and the armor plating will break toes if kicked hard enough! Anything less is just a play toy if you ask me!

How about something smaller to start with. Why do you want to raise the Titanic if you can get more experience by recovering a rowing boat (fighter in this case).

Cees

I wish I could remember where I saw the sidescan images of the Lake Mead B-29. When it hit the water it ripped off 3 of the 4 engines. Then when a history channel group dived the wreck they said it looked like someone had already been there and removed a lot of equipment via a hole in the side.

I agree with Rob, I know that the NPS has clamped down on this wreck as it is in a national park it belongs to "The People" meaning the NPS treats this under thier attitude of "stay the *&$% away from it" If I remember right you have to apply for a permit to dive on it as well.

The "Lady of the Lake" B-29 in Alaska is in pretty sad shape. Scott Burris of the former "heavybombers.com" website had a lot of good info on this plane at one time.

All of that said, remember the golden rule: he who has the gold makes the rules!

Tom P.

A good source of photos, images and video of the Lake Mead B-29 45-21847 can be found here.

http://www.indepthconsulting.com/

Shay

A little from the National Park Service about the Lake Meade B-29:

http://www.nps.gov/lame/photos/b29-ifs-md2.jpg





photo credit: Brett Seymour, National Park Service

_________________
It's you and me against the world.

We attack at dawn.

Here is the Ditrict court decision on the Lake Mead B-29:

On August 18, 2003, U.S. District Court Judge Kent J. Dawson ruled the Historic Aircraft Recovery Corporation failed to meet its burden of proof in their motion for ownership the B-29 aircraft that crashed into the Overton Arm of Lake Mead in 1948. Additionally, the court ruled against a temporary restraining order preventing the National Park Service (NPS) from studying or doing any work on the B-29 and/or the crash site.

The decision clearly states the B-29 was never abandoned by the federal government. The NPS participated in the rescue of the B-29 crew, and has, over the years, claimed ownership of the wreck for the federal government. Additionally, the actions of the National Park Service have not shown any intention to relinquish legal rights to the B-29. The court cited the NPS has demonstrated its interest in the B-29 as an important historical artifact by issuing diving restrictions to protect the aircraft and the site and participating in the determination of eligibility of the aircraft and site for the National Register of Historic Places. The NPS has defended its interest on behalf of the American people, in this, and a previous lawsuit.

The court also stated the government has generally-known the location of the crash site since 1948. Additionally, the court agreed with the government’s argument that the wreck is located on a plateau about 160 feet above the bed of the Virgin River on federally-owned land. This is an important point because it maintains the ownership of the aircraft by the federal government for the American people. The court did not agree with the plaintiff that the crash is in the location of the original Virgin River channel. This would have changed the jurisdiction of the site to the state of Nevada.

On August 6, 2002, the National Park Service was informed that a group of local divers had located an Army Air Force B-29 bomber, which had crashed in the Overton Arm of Lake Mead more than 55 years ago. All crew members survived the crash, and their stories in conjunction with Army Air Force crash reports were instrumental in locating the aircraft. The aircraft was located at a depth that requires technical skill and specialized equipment to access.

The B-29 Superfortress was one of the first high-altitude heavy bombers and was reported to have carried equipment specifically designed for what was once a top-secret mission of atmospheric research. Because there are few examples of the B-29 left in existence this aircraft is a very significant cultural resource.
The National Park Service has worked with its Submerged Resource Center to do a full condition assessment and site documentation. Established in 1980, the Center formed the first underwater archaeology team in the federal government. They have conducted surveys in over 120 units throughout the National Park System using minimum impact techniques to collect data without harming the underwater resources. The team was at Lake Mead in June 2003 to conduct additional inventory work and analysis, including corrosion studies, on the B-29 bomber and site. The NPS Submerged Resources Team has been recently featured on the Discovery and History channels for their work on the USS Arizona.

Superintendent William K. Dickinson said, “The NPS is planning to meet with members of the local dive community in the very near future to work collaboratively on a management plan that will allow the public to experience the site while protecting it for future generations as part of a comprehensive site stewardship plan.”

Scientific studies and analysis at the site will be an on-going process. The B-29 and the site upon which it rests are managed by the National Park Service under the National Historic Preservation Act. Federal law prohibits any disturbance of this protected resource.

In January 2003, Lake Mead National Recreation Area Superintendent William K. Dickinson announced that the requirement to obtain a scuba diving permit for a portion of the Lower Overton Arm of Lake Mead has been extended through January 21, 2004. The restriction is necessary to protect the B-29, a sensitive archaeological resource. Permits for scuba diving will be considered on a case by case basis and can be requested through the Chief Ranger’s Office at 702.293.8908.

Lake Mead National Recreation Area is a unit of the National Park Service.

Tom P.