A few pictures from Butler Aircraft

[Larry Kraus]

For a26invader,

When I was in Chico with Tanker 66 in June,I asked Dave Kelly,Jr.,who now flies a P-3 for Aero Union about Tanker 65.He said that it had been sold to a fuel hauler in Alaska and was just waiting for the new owners to arrive and fly it out.I thought that he said Evert's Air Fuel,but it could easily have been Brooks.He did say that the airframe is in good enough shape that they were planning to put it to work rather than parting it out.I'll clarify the new owner the next time that I speak with someone who knows the details.At any rate Tanker 65 will remain active in Alaska in the near future rather than ending up as scrap.

[a26invader]

Thanks Larry, that is indeed great news. At least this fine bird gets to stay in the air rather than being scrapped.

Thanks again

Rgds
Nicolai

[Chris Brame]

Hi Larry,

How does the Orion compare in handling to the DC-7 when you're fighting fires? With the shorter wingspan, is it preferable to the Douglas when you have to get in and out of canyon areas, for example?

[a26invader]

For a26invader,

When I was in Chico with Tanker 66 in June,I asked Dave Kelly,Jr.,who now flies a P-3 for Aero Union about Tanker 65.He said that it had been sold to a fuel hauler in Alaska and was just waiting for the new owners to arrive and fly it out.I thought that he said Evert's Air Fuel,but it could easily have been Brooks.He did say that the airframe is in good enough shape that they were planning to put it to work rather than parting it out.I'll clarify the new owner the next time that I speak with someone who knows the details.At any rate Tanker 65 will remain active in Alaska in the near future rather than ending up as scrap.

Update from Classic Propliners:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Classic-Propliners/

"...C-54 N8502R flew from Sequoia to Kingman on
29th July. It will fly to Casper, Wyoming in the near future before
continuing on to Fairbanks ..."

[Larry Kraus]

I've been intermittently busy and my #1 laptop finally comitted suicide so I've been setting up my second new latop since March.The first new laptop is great,but uses Vista Ultimate Edition 64 bit.My new new laptop uses XP Pro and allows me to run a number of my older programs that aren't compatable with Vista.

Anyway,I'll get around to posting some new material soon.For Chris,I've never flown a P-3,so I can't give you a meaningful evaluation of the P-3 vs. the DC-7.I do have a picture of a drop that I made on the Noisy Creek Fire in Central Oregon a week or two ago.The run was very steep as we had to turn inside a box canyon in order to get lined up for the drop and I didn't want to get too deep into the canyon pointing the wrong direction (as in No Exit).Somebody sent this picture to me last week.This is a Coverage 8 drop.Theoretically,this will apply a coverage of 8 gallons of retardant per 100 square feet on the ground.With our tank system (8 doors with 375 gl. each),that works out to double doors at .6 second interval between openings.We aim for an indicated airspeed of 130 kts and about 150 ft above the canopy.The picture shows the third set of double doors just beginning to open.

[skybolt2003]

Awesome! I wish there was sound with that!

[KRM_Bear]

Neat Stuff! Thanks for all the great pictures and information.

Is this one of y'alls? Tanker 16? dropping in on one of my fires - NE Texas Labor Day weekend 2000... John Deere dozer that the second tanker, a C-130, just almost painted red, that would be mine... lol

[RNDMTRS4EVR]

Bear,
That is tanker #33 belongs to T&G aviation out of AZ. I don't know what ever happend to it, they did not contract it after the Forest Circus put life limit crap on the tankers, who knows where it is at today.

Scott........

[sledge39]

I've been intermittently busy and my #1 laptop finally comitted suicide so I've been setting up my second new latop since March.The first new laptop is great,but uses Vista Ultimate Edition 64 bit.My new new laptop uses XP Pro and allows me to run a number of my older programs that aren't compatable with Vista.

Anyway,I'll get around to posting some new material soon.For Chris,I've never flown a P-3,so I can't give you a meaningful evaluation of the P-3 vs. the DC-7.I do have a picture of a drop that I made on the Noisy Creek Fire in Central Oregon a week or two ago.The run was very steep as we had to turn inside a box canyon in order to get lined up for the drop and I didn't want to get too deep into the canyon pointing the wrong direction (as in No Exit).Somebody sent this picture to me last week.This is a Coverage 8 drop.Theoretically,this will apply a coverage of 8 gallons of retardant per 100 square feet on the ground.With our tank system (8 doors with 375 gl. each),that works out to double doors at .6 second interval between openings.We aim for an indicated airspeed of 130 kts and about 150 ft above the canopy.The picture shows the third set of double doors just beginning to open.

Wo! Larry...thats an absolute classic shot...whoever took that pic was definitely in the right place at the right time...

Sledge
.

[Larry Kraus]

I have a number of pictures to post eventually.A few are action shots,but mostly static pictures of P-2's and P-3's.Today,I wanted to post the latest on the Green C-130 that's been sitting at Redmond for 15+ years.It flew out today for Visalia.In the words of Norman Stubbs of TBM Inc.:"This is a lot of money and effort to move an airplane that's just going into storage".It's been very noisy around here this week with the engine runs.I now remember why I wasn't unhappy when the C-130's left the tanker business.

These shots were taken on July 30th







These pictures from September 14th show a lot of progress.The airplane sat with two engines installed until a week or two ago.







These are shots of the big event.I'm still learning to use my telephoto lens and the wind was blowing about 20 kts and it's a $200 without auto stabilization.

[engguy]

I would think you would want to stick with the DC7. Those wings don't like to stay on those C130's. Remember the HP planes that helped bring on the forest service cancelations. I'd be for adding a ton or so of steel reenforcement in that wing root/spare area. And besides recips not only sound better but also conserve fuel and come into power much faster than a turbine trying to wind up. Thus slower better spread drop times.

[noizeedave]

C-130s are great for air tankers. Unfortunately after they leave military service the inspections arent as thorough, which lead to the bad press she gets. Its an amazing day when a stirkcen 130 comes back to life. Im on 9 years with them and only image another 11 atleast with them.
Great site to see! Thanks for the postings.
oh-by the way, someone tell the P-3 Guys they're motors are on upside down!

[Larry Kraus]

I agree that the C-130's,at least those with the Aero Union constant flow tank,were probably the best tankers in the business.What I don't miss is the tremendous racket that they make.Somehow,it's 10 times more irritating than the P-3.After a couple of half hour sessions of listening to all 4 engines howling this week,I've had enough of C-130's to last me for the duration.

[Larry Kraus]

We had a bit of activity last week when some lightning hit northeast of Medford which started a few fires in State protected areas.We loaded out of Klamath Falls because Medford was plugged up with Fed tankers.ASM A4,our PC-7 Air Supervision Module from Alaska acted as both leadplane and air attack.We ended up diverting to a new start just southeast of Medford Airport and dropped there.Somebody got a couple of good shots of us following the ASM on a drop run.We look really low at the beginning of the drop,but it's the camera angle.









I hadn't really intended for those last two doors to open,but I'd set up for an 8 door trail and realized about the time that the 4th door was opening that any additional retardant would go long.Unfortunately,even though I let off of the drop button,another 2 doors opened as the relays had already tripped.Oh well.....

Here are a few shots of both DC-7s that were on the Oregon contract taking a break at the Klamath Falls Tanker Base on September 18th.









A few days later I was back in Redmond with Tanker 06 parked in front of me when they got a dispatch to a fire.Here is a sequence showing Bob Webb starting engines with a strong tailwind

[RNDMTRS4EVR]

Larry,
You guys almost done on your state contract yet? Will you be heading south to help out in California?

Scott........