Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:30 am
Anyone know what kind of shape it was in?
Buccaneer was from Tennessee.
Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:41 am
The story on the Official site is flawed. Here is a quote from a larger story on Johnsville in the Sunday Philadelphia Inquirer dated July15th 2001.
" In 1978 A single Buccaneer was returned to Warminster.
The wrecked shell had been pulled from A Tennessee field and 15 local men set up a workshop in one Brewster hangar.
The men, many of them veterans, labored evenings and weekends for 18 years to restore the bomber, fabricating parts fromscratch. Unable to reconstruct its glass conopy, they found that English gardeners were using the canopies as greenhouses. Everyone chipped in $200.00 to have one shipped to the U.S.
The Buccaneer was 85% complete whenthe Navy loaded it on a truck and took it away. The Naval Air Development Center which had grown around the Johnsville plant, was closing.
Today the plane sits in boxes in a warehouse at the Navy's aviation museum in Pensacola Fla. Of the 15 men, only 2 0r 3 are still alive."
That story from 2001 shoots down the one that is posted on the Navy site. The Oklahoma Buccaneers were not involved in the Johnsville effort so why is there such confusion?
I will continue digging.
.
" In 1978 A single Buccaneer was returned to Warminster.
The wrecked shell had been pulled from A Tennessee field and 15 local men set up a workshop in one Brewster hangar.
The men, many of them veterans, labored evenings and weekends for 18 years to restore the bomber, fabricating parts fromscratch. Unable to reconstruct its glass conopy, they found that English gardeners were using the canopies as greenhouses. Everyone chipped in $200.00 to have one shipped to the U.S.
The Buccaneer was 85% complete whenthe Navy loaded it on a truck and took it away. The Naval Air Development Center which had grown around the Johnsville plant, was closing.
Today the plane sits in boxes in a warehouse at the Navy's aviation museum in Pensacola Fla. Of the 15 men, only 2 0r 3 are still alive."
That story from 2001 shoots down the one that is posted on the Navy site. The Oklahoma Buccaneers were not involved in the Johnsville effort so why is there such confusion?
I will continue digging.
.
Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:46 am
Today the plane sits fully restored in Pensacola. That is a very important thing. IT also says that members of the group during the restoration supported moving the plane. is that not correct? I am not arguing, I am just asking.
Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:15 am
The quote is from 2001,not 2004. The restoration was completed by the Navy at Pensacola. The engine installation and painting along with a punch list of small details were all they needed to complate for static display. As far as I remember it was a hostile situation with the Navy's lawyers showing up with the plane being taken without any due process.
Again I will search for more specifics of the action.
Here is a link with photos after it arrived at Pensacola.
http://www.warbirdforum.com/brewbuc.htm
Again I will search for more specifics of the action.
Here is a link with photos after it arrived at Pensacola.
http://www.warbirdforum.com/brewbuc.htm
Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:57 am
Ok I am confused here. If the Pensacola SB2A Buccaneer is actually an Army Air Forces A-34 version, how would/could the Navy have claim to it? That would mean it wasn't a Navy asset, there fore no basis for the Navy to claim ownership over. Am I missing something here? Or am I reading too deep into the posts here? Somebody educate me here, please!
Mike in Florida
USAF Aircrew Life Support (Retired)
"Your Life Is Our Business"
Mike in Florida
USAF Aircrew Life Support (Retired)
"Your Life Is Our Business"
Sun Oct 05, 2008 12:08 pm
ffuries wrote:Ok I am confused here. If the Pensacola SB2A Buccaneer is actually an Army Air Forces A-34 version, how would/could the Navy have claim to it? That would mean it wasn't a Navy asset, there fore no basis for the Navy to claim ownership over. Am I missing something here? Or am I reading too deep into the posts here? Somebody educate me here, please!
Mike in Florida
USAF Aircrew Life Support (Retired)
"Your Life Is Our Business"
Mike , maybe the planes in Oklahoma were Army A-34's But the plane from Johnsville/Warminster/Tennesee is apparently Navy and the one on display at the Naval Museum. As I alluded to in my first post, Someone who wrote up the History on line, has confused the 2 aircraft.
Why would the Naval Museum restore a derelict hulk when they had one that was 85% complete with most of the parts for completion and been rebuilt by the men who built her originally?
I will keep digging?
Sun Oct 05, 2008 12:18 pm
Here is a link to one of the Tullahoma Buccaneers dated 2003. The Johnsville plane was already 85 % complete by this time and in Navy possession by the time this picture was taken.
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/324311/M/
Brewster A-34 Bermuda Designation assigned for Lend-Lease
documentation to SB2A Buccaneer naval dive
bomber. None ever served with AAF.
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/324311/M/
Brewster A-34 Bermuda Designation assigned for Lend-Lease
documentation to SB2A Buccaneer naval dive
bomber. None ever served with AAF.
Last edited by Jiggersfromsphilly on Sun Oct 05, 2008 4:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Sun Oct 05, 2008 12:23 pm
Thanks Jiggers. I knew I was missing something somewhere. Thanks for clearing the haze up for me.
Mike in Florida
USAF Aircrew Life Support (Retired)
"Your Life Is Our Business"
Mike in Florida
USAF Aircrew Life Support (Retired)
"Your Life Is Our Business"
Sun Oct 05, 2008 4:40 pm
Does anybody have anymore intel on the Tallichet end of this ? I had never heard from anyone at Johnsville of his involvement.
Sun Oct 05, 2008 6:22 pm
Seems to sad to know that such a rare aircraft was still outside as for 2003. 
This wreck should have gone to someone with care to see it brought back to a rare and amazing flyable example. Thats plenty enough! 
This wreck should have gone to someone with care to see it brought back to a rare and amazing flyable example. Thats plenty enough!
Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:06 pm
This thread is a little confusing?
from what I can determine....
There is one SB2A wreck or centre/forward fuselage at Parris Island Oaklahoma badly stripped, badly corroded and effectively beyond restoraion without access to more substational parts/remains/patterns.
Other posts above talk about the 3x A-34's that were existing in the swamp in Tullahoma, with the best two acquired by Dave Tallechet?, and it seems clear one of these became the Pensacola museum display,the Navy website clearly refers to their aircraft coming from Tallechet.
The Navy's webpage clearly describes it being delivered by Tallechet to Johnsville for restoration at the Naval Air Development Centre by volunteers under his ownership and then relocated to Pensacola while still in his ownership.
Many of Tallechet's aircraft appear to be under restoration by other groups without him actually relinquishing ownership, and then at various times being relocated elsewhere half way through the restoration - ie his A-20)
There are suggestions above that the Navy just stepped in a claimed the aircraft off the volunteers, but nothing really evidences that?
I dont really see any dis-agreement on the facts arising from the 2001 Philidelphia Inquirer, its clear Tallechet and the Navy were working together towards an intended trade etc, the volunteers at Johnsville might not have been happy but dont appear to have had any real say in it anyway.
Despite working on the aircraft for 10 years it seems the local volunteers did not have title to the aircraft and relocation and transfer of ownership by Tallechet to the Navy occured at Pensacola, along with remaining restoration.
I havent seen every evidence anywhere that the Johnsville airframe was sourced seperately as a real SB2A? or that the Navy simply turned up and claimed the aircraft as former USN property?
I also havent seen anything to suggest the Navy might not have been to Parris Island at some time to recover patterns/parts to assist in the completion of thier example from 80% to display standard?, it would be a reasonable thing to do, where else would you go to get missing parts, or at least to see what might survive on that wreck?
From Dan it seems the last (poorest?) Tullahoma remains also eventually went to Pensacola, and was "consumed" in completing the remaining restoration?, unfortunately with the remains scrapped?
This is dis-appointing if true as it does seem little of the main structure would have been required for the restoration, and that it could have formed a basis of a second project, particularly using the Oaklahoma remains as well.
That then also raises the questions of what happened to the second Tallechet airframe - was it also consumed/scrapped at or prior to Johnsville to support that restoration by Tallechet, or is it intact elsewhere in storage in his legacy collection?
The Oaklahoma remains seem in very poor condition and probably far too stripped to form the basis of a full restoration even to static, but the Tallahoma wrecks including the third and final one all appear to have been reasonable project opportunities with significant wing/fuselage structure remaining, it is sad if only one of these has survived through to restoration?
Does anyone have photos of the "better" two wrecks when Tallechet first acquired them?
Regards
Mark Pilkington
from what I can determine....
There is one SB2A wreck or centre/forward fuselage at Parris Island Oaklahoma badly stripped, badly corroded and effectively beyond restoraion without access to more substational parts/remains/patterns.
Other posts above talk about the 3x A-34's that were existing in the swamp in Tullahoma, with the best two acquired by Dave Tallechet?, and it seems clear one of these became the Pensacola museum display,the Navy website clearly refers to their aircraft coming from Tallechet.
The Navy's webpage clearly describes it being delivered by Tallechet to Johnsville for restoration at the Naval Air Development Centre by volunteers under his ownership and then relocated to Pensacola while still in his ownership.
Many of Tallechet's aircraft appear to be under restoration by other groups without him actually relinquishing ownership, and then at various times being relocated elsewhere half way through the restoration - ie his A-20)
There are suggestions above that the Navy just stepped in a claimed the aircraft off the volunteers, but nothing really evidences that?
I dont really see any dis-agreement on the facts arising from the 2001 Philidelphia Inquirer, its clear Tallechet and the Navy were working together towards an intended trade etc, the volunteers at Johnsville might not have been happy but dont appear to have had any real say in it anyway.
Despite working on the aircraft for 10 years it seems the local volunteers did not have title to the aircraft and relocation and transfer of ownership by Tallechet to the Navy occured at Pensacola, along with remaining restoration.
I havent seen every evidence anywhere that the Johnsville airframe was sourced seperately as a real SB2A? or that the Navy simply turned up and claimed the aircraft as former USN property?
I also havent seen anything to suggest the Navy might not have been to Parris Island at some time to recover patterns/parts to assist in the completion of thier example from 80% to display standard?, it would be a reasonable thing to do, where else would you go to get missing parts, or at least to see what might survive on that wreck?
From Dan it seems the last (poorest?) Tullahoma remains also eventually went to Pensacola, and was "consumed" in completing the remaining restoration?, unfortunately with the remains scrapped?
This is dis-appointing if true as it does seem little of the main structure would have been required for the restoration, and that it could have formed a basis of a second project, particularly using the Oaklahoma remains as well.
That then also raises the questions of what happened to the second Tallechet airframe - was it also consumed/scrapped at or prior to Johnsville to support that restoration by Tallechet, or is it intact elsewhere in storage in his legacy collection?
The Oaklahoma remains seem in very poor condition and probably far too stripped to form the basis of a full restoration even to static, but the Tallahoma wrecks including the third and final one all appear to have been reasonable project opportunities with significant wing/fuselage structure remaining, it is sad if only one of these has survived through to restoration?
Does anyone have photos of the "better" two wrecks when Tallechet first acquired them?
Regards
Mark Pilkington
Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:57 pm
Mark,
Three survivors at Tullahoma would be a conservative number, and let me just leave it at that.
There is little question that the remains of the last Tullahoma survivor were scrapped by the NMNA.
Here's a link to at least one of the Tallichet survivors, now at Pima:
http://www.pimaair.org/collection-detail.php?cid=41
Three survivors at Tullahoma would be a conservative number, and let me just leave it at that.
There is little question that the remains of the last Tullahoma survivor were scrapped by the NMNA.
Here's a link to at least one of the Tallichet survivors, now at Pima:
http://www.pimaair.org/collection-detail.php?cid=41
Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:44 pm
Mark,
Parris Island is the east coast Marine Corps Recruit Depot, near Beaufort, South Carolina.
Walt
Parris Island is the east coast Marine Corps Recruit Depot, near Beaufort, South Carolina.
Walt
Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:15 pm
Mark,
"Though it would be a reasonable thing to do" for the Navy to recover parts from the Paris Island wreck it is in direct violation of Naval policy.
The NHC will pick and choose when and where it will comply with its own policies. If a civilian violates a "policy" he will be walking the plank.
Pirate Lex
www.BrewsterCorsair.com
"Though it would be a reasonable thing to do" for the Navy to recover parts from the Paris Island wreck it is in direct violation of Naval policy.
The NHC will pick and choose when and where it will comply with its own policies. If a civilian violates a "policy" he will be walking the plank.
Pirate Lex
www.BrewsterCorsair.com
Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:19 am
The airframe in the Naval Museum was the most complete of the five Tullahoma airframes (the only one with an intact tail) and apparently the only one with a known serial, FF-860 (RAF). One airframe was missing its tail and the other three were little more than burned-out center sections, according to the article in Air Classics by Pony Maples.