KI-61 & A-20 at Chino

HarvardIV · **Joined:** Mon Oct 04, 2004 9:08 pm **Posts:** 1437

Hi Tom:

Quote:

never understood why guys like weeks etc have their toys restored overseas when they already have the $$$$$, the restoration space, hangars, spare parts resources, professional assistance etc right at home. granted there are pro restorers & specialists worldwide..... but why send a project around the globe where you can't keep physical tabs on it?? for that kind of money i'd be on those guys like white on rice in my back yard!! best, tom

Actually, they're a lot like you in me. Even though they may be well off, many have worked for their money. So like you and me they try to get the best deal possible.

bdk · **Joined:** Sun May 02, 2004 1:16 am **Posts:** 11324

tom d. friedman wrote:

finding original parts for the inline engine must about impossible!! any pics of dave t's havoc?? best, tom

When Frank Taylor had this project (between Tallichet and Weeks) there were about 3 engines with it that looked to be in pretty nice condition.

Chris Brame · **Posted:** Sun Feb 27, 2005 2:01 am

The "Tora" P-40s had C-45 wings; pretty similar in size and shape to P-40 wings. That's why when you see the scenes at Wheeler, the fuselages shatter but the wings stay intact! And one of the studio shots of the "1941" mockup showed it with BT-13 wings (noted the flap hinges).

airnutz · **Posted:** Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:27 am

Chris...Your right!! The fuse is not a P-40 mock-up. I began to make
a smart-ass comment and reply...."My bad Chris..that is the legendary
6-gunned Stinson Reliant!"

But by Gawwwd that empannage and fin is a Stinson Reliant!!!....

http://shanaberger.com/images/AT-19_3.htm

Crap..I scare myself sometimes..even a blind squirrel can get a nut now
and then!

As for the wings?? 1986 is too many years away from the "Flying Tigers" or any of the 40's P-40 movies for the intactness the wings appear to
be in. Unless they were props picked-up from one of the many Hollywood
studios warehouse clearance sales in the 70's and 80's???? Old Mantz/
Tallman stuff??

airnutz · **Posted:** Sun Feb 27, 2005 8:03 am

Why would Weeks send certain stuff "south" to Oz?? Because that is where
the jigs,tooling,and research have evolved. With the SEAsia and Russian
recoveries, restorations and connections...specialized expertise has
become custom production capability. Really cool for the Southies and
us. Errr..is this the good part of globalization? Regardless..make 'em fly!

ps
I didn't even mention the indigenous history of the south Commonwealths
aviation with US and UK manufacturers etc.

airnutz · **Posted:** Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:45 pm

After making the former comment about why certain aircraft were going
"south" for their restorations, I realized it sounded like a "matter of fact"
statement. I have no idea why Mr. Weeks is chosing to perform in this
way. But after following the "downunder" progress for what seems ages
now, that appeared to be the logical conclusion...to me. Any thoughts??

Something else...I'm curious as to the $$ aspects of these 2 markets.
I wonder what, or if there are significant differences in the cost to
restore aircraft in the US, verses Oz and Nz? Any thoughts?

bdk · **Joined:** Sun May 02, 2004 1:16 am **Posts:** 11324

airnutz wrote:

Something else...I'm curious as to the $$ aspects of these 2 markets. I wonder what, or if there are significant differences in the cost to restore aircraft in the US, verses Oz and Nz? Any thoughts?

I think that part of it is the ebb and tide of the business.

A lot of stuff is going downunder right now but there are still outfits in the US that are very competetive- especially some of the cottage type workshops you don't hear much about. I was told by one of the "cottage industry" shop foremen that their rates were competetive with those downunder.

I think that this is a growth industry right now. With the price of these aircraft going up, the higher level of quality expected and more and more newly manufactured parts going into them, I think that many of the owners are willing to pay a premium price for quality work.

There is also an economy of scale, that's why you see Ki-61's all going to the same place.

With Square One going out of business, I'm sure lots of the Mustang work is scattering now too, creating opportunity for others.

setter · **Posted:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:48 am

Hi

On the US Vs Aus/NZ costs

presently you get 4 Australian $ for 3 US $ or 25% more bang for buck - even better rates in NZ - it was down as low as 2 for 1 a few years back. The wages are also lower in NZ/Aus so the US is never going to compete on labour costs.

I won't get into quality issues as we all have war stories about what this or that country does or doesn't do. The fact is that the quality of the aircraft is such that they get registered and they fly. Antipodean work is as good as any other.

The time scale for a restoration downunder is on average less so you get your airframe quicker and cheaper.

The average downunder shop does batches of aircraft and as such reduces component costs through multiple part production and offsets it further by selling parts into the US and even the UK.

This is all my opinion but owners vote with their wallets and aircraft and that's why they are voting downunder at present and I think will continue to do so for a long while yet.

Regards
John P

DaveM2 · **Posted:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:27 am

setter wrote:

Hi

Antipodean work is as good as any other.

Plenty of awards to prove that.. Banta, Thurman and Yagen P-40s to name some.

Dave

airmanual · **Joined:** Thu Nov 04, 2004 6:32 am **Posts:** 240

Regarding D. Tallichet and the Ki-61; it was bought from the late Roy Worcester who was collecting Japanese. planes and armament for a planned museum in Wewak.

Mr worcester also had 2 nice and fairly complete Ki-43 in his collection. Does anybody have any idea where they are at present ?

Laurent

airnutz · **Posted:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:10 pm

Thanks Guys for your informed replies.

Col Rohr..thanks for your reply, but I think you are in error in labeling
Jacks photo as a Stinson 108. I'm pretty certain it is a Reliant/AT-19.

The "rudder hinge line" on the fin of dash1 and dash2 108's "slants
forward" . The "hinge line' of the fin on the Reliant is vertical and
perpindicular to the horizontal stabilizer. Dash 3 108's have this same
feature but the fin/rudder layout is completely different. There is also
the matter of the different placement of the horizontal feathers of
the 108 verse that of the Reliant.

The "kicker" for me is the triangular framework below the vert.fin which
is the "tailwheel strut service access"...which is totally absent on
108's! 108's have a trailing spring-leaf tailwheel aft of the vert.fin.
A sad photo of a damaged AT-19 displaying the acces panel, 2cond foto
top row....

http://www.leatherneckaircorp.com/N7080Yc.htm

Compare it to jacks photo...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v730/fugari/A-20.jpg

Yes Rob, Mr. Tallichet had various Classics, but he has also had at least
one AT-19. A link for 1990's resto of N70012, belonging to MARC
Scroll to bottom for other aircraft including A-20....

http://www.airheritage.org/at19.html

Thanx guys...Jim

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