Pearl Harbor B-17s...

[Nathan]

I spent a few years studying the aircraft of Pearl Harbor. Its been awhile so hopefully I am remembering all the info correctly. I spent some time with David Aiken on all this too.

Since there has been lots of questions regarding Pearl Harbor B-17s figured I'd write a new post.


The B-17 flight from the mainland on Dec 7th composed of 4 B-17C's and 8 B-17E's of the 38th and 88th Recon squadrons. All the E models were fresh from the factory and did not have any markings on them. All the B-17C's in that flight where painted olive drab. as for some noted paintings show NMF. These "C" models did have markings on them but only one is known and that is B-17C black "#49".

This is one of those B-17C's "#49" that was from that flight and crashed at Bellows.

[Nathan]

There were many U.S. aircraft airborne before, during and after the attack. Three PBY-5's of VP-11 where on patrol from Kaneohe NAS(sp?). All armed with depth charges. One of those PBY's, 11-P-1, helped the USS Ward attack that midget sub. Funny how that part is always left out in the history books. This PBY-5 dropped depth charges on it but ultimately the USS Ward got it.

Other PBY's had some encounters with Japanese aircraft. I think some PBY crews shooting back with their .45's and Springfield rifles! Other PBY's got airborne during the attack. One Kingfisher was shot down/ran out of gas. Practically every pre-war naval aircraft you can think of got air born and searched for the Japanese and or was involved with some air combat. Including SOC Seagulls that damaged a Zero and Seversky flying boats also got airborne. I think I remember reading a TBD got airborne too...or at lest someone jumped into the rear seat to use the gun.

This is why I have been so interested in the Pearl Harbor aircraft. So many aircraft stories.

[John Dupre]

Speaking of airborne aircraft at PH think of the civilian aircraft airborne and lost that day. There were several maybe half a dozen airborne all told. At least two were shot down and the bullet riddled body of one of the pilots washed ashore some days later. Imagine going up on a beautiful Sunday in Piper Cub or Aeronca and then coming face to face with Zero.

[AviaS199]

Speaking of airborne aircraft at PH think of the civilian aircraft airborne and lost that day. There were several maybe half a dozen airborne all told. At least two were shot down and the bullet riddled body of one of the pilots washed ashore some days later. Imagine going up on a beautiful Sunday in Piper Cub or Aeronca and then coming face to face with Zero.

Brother Aiken wrote a fine article about this very subject, published in the June 2007 issue of Flight Journal.

[ZeamerB17]

The B-17 flight from the mainland on Dec 7th composed of 4 B-17C's and 8 B-17E's of the 38th and 88th Recon squadrons. All the E models were fresh from the factory and did not have any markings on them.

Do you happen to have the S/Ns of the B-17Es?


Thanks!

[David_Aiken]

Aloha Dave Zeamer,
About 20 years ago, I became embedded with the 18th Bomb Wing Historian and the Pacific Air Force Historian. They were writing a volume on Hickam AFB...then they came back to me to edit the volume "7 DECEMBER 1941: THE USAF STORY" by Leatrice Arakaki and John Kuborn.

Chapter four had the most problems, thus the footnote to that chapter. Yet, there are additions, deletions, and corrections made throughout. One item, alas, which was introdiuced by Day of Infamy by Walter Lord, was the "Young family Laundry" incident...the Young decendants pointed out a cited crash in Lord's book as at "251 Hiwi Place"... actually this crash actually came down at 711 Neal Avenue.

I added several Appendices. One is a result of ten years of searching for the orders for the B-17 flight through Oahu. This particular Appendix [pages 157-159] lists all the 16 aircraft by serial and crews by name/rank and reveals which planes had mechanical problems which did NOT make the trip "to War". The book is ON-LINE at:
http://contrails.iit.edu/history/7Decem ... 7Dec-4.pdf

Uniquely, I had the 38th Recon Squadron orders from Truman Landon by the time I attended a 19th Bomb Group Reunion. One of the vets related his plane's heroic landing at Waikiki during the attack...in detail, when I already knew that he was not even on the orders. One must be wary of a rare few 'wanna-be' veterans.

Thankfully, I had a neighbor who became the President of the 19th Bomb Group Association. Conrad Marvel was an aircraft mechanic at Clark Field on 8 Dec 1941. Of the fleeing B-17s to fly from the Philippines to Australia, a mechanic was assigned to fly with each. Conrad flew on the SWOOSE. Conrad viewed my gatherings of orders and documents and as Reunion President, he asked the vets to send him copies which he re-distributed copies to all the vets...I wish all reunion groups could do that!

Cheers,
David Aiken

[Holedigger]

Very cool insights. Thank you David. This IS the stuff that makes visiting the forum so worthwhile.

Chris

[David_Aiken]

Aloha Chris,
Just walked from the mail box. Thank you, Chris! Mahalo nui loa (Thanks BIG)!
Cheers,
David

[Shay]

The B-17 flight from the mainland on Dec 7th composed of 4 B-17C's and 8 B-17E's of the 38th and 88th Recon squadrons. All the E models were fresh from the factory and did not have any markings on them.

Do you happen to have the S/Ns of the B-17Es?


Thanks!

From JB's site:

B-17C

40-2049 - (38th RS, 11th BG) damaged during approach to Bellows Field, Pearl Harbor Dec 7, 1941. Not repaired, and used as spares source.

40-2063 - (38th RS, 11th BG) w/o Langley Field May 29, 1943. It was one of the planes that arrived over Pearl Harbor Dec 7, 1941.

40-2070 - destroyed Hickam Field, Oahu, HI Dec 7, 1941.

40-2074 - was one of the planes that arrived over Pearl Harbor on Dec 7, 1941. Hit by Japanese gunfire while attempting to land at Wheeler Field, setting its magnesium flare box on fire. Fuselage buckled on landing, splitting the plane in two. A flight surgeon on board was killed by strafing fire as he tried to scramble away from the burning plane. The plane was not repaired


B-17E

41-2408 - was one of the planes that arrived over Pearl Harbor on Dec 7, 1941. Used to evacuate MacArthur from Philippines Mar 25, 1942.

41-2413 - was one of the planes that arrived over Pearl Harbor Dec 7, 1941.

41-2416 - (7th BG, 88th RS) was one of the planes that arrived over Pearl Harbor Dec 7, 1941. *San Antonio Rose * staged through Batchelor Field to Del Monte Philippines on bombing sortie against Japanese landings at Legaspi Mar 1942. WFU Jan 31, 1944.

41-2429 - (7th BG, 88th RS) arrived over Pearl Harbor on Dec 7, 1941. Used to evacuate MacArthur's staff from Del Monte, Philippines Mar 25, 1942. Shot down Rabaul, New Britain Aug 7, 1942. Harlpease received Medal of Honor for action.

41-2430 - (7th BG, 88th RS) was one of six planes that flew into Pearl Harbor Dec 7, 1941. Ferried to Australia and nicknamed "Naughty But Nice". Shot down by J1N1-S Jun 25, 1943, Vunakanau, SW Pacific with 65th BS, 43rd BG while on night mission to Rabaul. MACR 14590. One crew POW, rest KIA. The crewmember who was POW survived the war. The wreck was discovered in 1982.

41-2432 - (7th BG, 88th RS, "The Last Straw") was one of the planes that arrived over Pearl Harbor on Dec 7, 1941

41-2433 - (7th BG, 88th RS) was one of the planes that arrived over Pearl Harbor on Dec 7, 1941

41-2434 - (7th BG, 88th RS) was one of the planes that arrived over Pearl Harbor on Dec 7, 1941.


Is that all of them??

Shay
_____________
Semper Fortis

[David_Aiken]

Hi Shay,
You 'landed 'most of them. 40-2070 aborted the mission to Oahu...
The ommission is 40-2054 which landed okay at Hickam Field.
HTH,
David

[Holedigger]

Hmmm....I may have to do some doodles and do something with PH 17's. I am slowly working up a P-36 at Wheeler project, have to pick a plane, pick a pilot, markings, hangars, ground equipment and all that jazz!

[AviaS199]

Hmmm ... IIRC, there is a story about one Fort making a forced landing on a golf course. Anyone know the story about that one?

[ZeamerB17]

Aloha Dave Zeamer

Actually, Zeamer's not my last name, but I am flattered.


Thanks for the info, guys!

I think 41-2429 was nicknamed "Why Don't We Do This More Often."

[Nathan]

Hmmm....I may have to do some doodles and do something with PH 17's. I am slowly working up a P-36 at Wheeler project, have to pick a plane, pick a pilot, markings, hangars, ground equipment and all that jazz!

lol Good luck on that one buddy. I have spent a few years trying to find PH P-40 and P-36 markings. My success is nill. You might want to try David Aiken he knows some markings but he is saving those for his book. But it would be cool if you did the P-36 flight that attacked a flight of Zeros. These P-36's were a mixed bag of NMF and olive drab colors. Pilots where: Sanders, Thacker, Stirling, and Rasmussen. Only Rasmussens plane P-36A #86 is known.

Cheers,
Nathan

[Holedigger]

That is what I am finding, pics and info on the P-36's somewhat scarce. I have pics of Rasmussen's AC , so it will probably be the main subject sprinting across the field, tail up, clawing for the air, past burning hangars, Peashooters, P-40s, people running filling the frame behind.