Warbird Information Exchange

For the all time greatest on your list, don't forget the Boeing built PT Stearmans, probably the most numerous of the early line still flying. Just my two cents.

_________________
Roger Cain
www.sfahistory.org
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Stearman/


We must limit politicians to two terms:
one in office and one in jail.

What no Curtiss?

_________________
Shop the Airplane Bunker At
www.warbirdbunker.com

Nathan wrote: "What no Curtiss?" with appropriate emoticons...
Seriously, if this question were asked back, say, about 1940, they might make the list.

Mark
Great Idea on a debate.....
Since this is a warbird forum (primarily) Ill rank my top 5 from a warbird perspective...

1. North American
Those who have a N/A product know why. Well designed, W/excellent materials and the only WW2 builder whose planes were kept in service by the US govt. for decades after the war.

1. (Tied for first place) Lockheed.
I'm biased here because My mom worked for K. Johnson and B. Smith for 18 years until they moved it out of Burbank in the 90's. But really they built the planes that turned the most heads and scared the most world leaders. That cant be ignored

3. Boeing. If I must......
4. Douglas
5. (Tied for 5th) Northrop / Grumman


Neely

_________________
To be in the hardware business you must first have a screw loose....

Excluding helicopters and rockets which weren't really the question, nor were support services or modification programs, yes I apologize for omitting the C-130.

What part of the C-27J airframe does Lockheed build? The aircraft, AFAIK, is made by Alenia in Italy.

Is that C-5 re-engine program really going to happen?

Atlas is/was also a GD design (from the Convair ICBM). That division was purchased by Lockheed Martin from GD. Not sure I would consider that a Lockheed product anymore than I would consider a T-6 or a B-1 Boeing designs. The title only passed through their hands for a while.

Well there doesnt seem to have been much debate etc, so perhaps I will list my own view?

1. Boeing - Kaydet, ,P26, 247, 314, B17,B29, B52, B707, B727,B737,B747,F18
2. Lockheed - 10/12, Hudson/Ventura, P38, Costellation, Neptune,P80,F104, Orion, C130, C5, SR71, F16
3. Grumman - F2F/F3F, Duck, Widgeon, F4F,F6F,Avenger, Tracker, Agcat, F14
4. Douglas - world cruiser,DC2, DC3, Dauntless, A20, DC4/C54, C133, DC6 DC9, DC10
5. North American - NA16, T6, B25, P51, F86, F100, X-15

Curtiss probably just gets pipped at number 5 by NA, despite the Jenny, P40 and C46.

Regards

Mark Pilkington

_________________
20th Century - The Age of Manned Flight
"from Wrights to Armstrong in 66 years -WOW!"

Douglas DC-10 was actually offered by the Douglas Aircraft Division of McDonnell Douglas. It was sort-of a heritage Douglas aircraft, but really not. Heritage McDonnell engineers were involved in the design and of course McDonnell Douglas corporate was funding the effort. Again, Douglas was a great aircraft builder/designer, but not financially sound in the years immediately prior to the merger/buyout. If not for the Douglas brand, I'm sure McDonnell would have dropped the name like a hot potato. In any case, McDonnell bled the commercial aircraft division dry due to the lack of sufficient management oversight and investment in the business, which in turn led to the buyout by Boeing for the remaining military program assets.

F-18 but no F-15??

No slight intended Randy, I just quickly strung some types together to support my priority ranking, even the F18 was an afterthought on the Boeing list, I didnt intend it to be a definitive or an exhaustive list of their products, just a representative list to show the depth of significant types.

Boeing have since acquired/inhereted the heritage of many other manufacturers including NA and Douglas, but their own list is very impressive in its own right.

Regards

Mark Pilkington

_________________
20th Century - The Age of Manned Flight
"from Wrights to Armstrong in 66 years -WOW!"

Boeing, P&W, Northrup Grumman, Raytheon, GE

Why because they are still in business. They all make aircraft or related items.
Technically none can manufacture much anymore. Since most all thier work is subed out to smaller contracting companys.

there were plenty of crooked crappy ran aircraft manufacturoring companies that cranked out many sub contracted birds, but in most cases with good construction qualities. while howard hughes's company was a disaster in organization, they cranked out the .50 caliber gun belt by the millions of feet for countless birds. i think his company holds the patent?? brewster.......... as crooked as a boomerang, cranked out corsairs to uncle sam's standards nonetheless............. even if there were cost overruns the dirty bs'rs. happy new year folks, tom

_________________
tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

Mark Pilkington wrote:


NO SKYRAIDER! WTF

_________________
Eric

"I spent most of my money on alcohol, women and skyraiders....and the rest of it I just wasted."

The focus of the debate is the manufacturer not their individual aircraft , while the list of aircraft adjacent is meant to be illustrative of the depth of significant types, not to be the definitive list.

regards

Mark Pilkington

_________________
20th Century - The Age of Manned Flight
"from Wrights to Armstrong in 66 years -WOW!"

BDK nailed Mickey D dead on! Little Donnie overpopulated the white shirts and ties and bankrupted the company, Old man Mac told one airline customer 'you'll get one crapper in front and one in back, both blue' the airline responded 'you've been dealing with the military way too long, you don't understand I'm the customer, and this is what I want. If you can't or won't supply it, there are several other manufacturers who will gladly give me exactly what I want' SPLUTT...SPLUTT...SPLUTT-

McDonnell managers ran the commercial side into the ground, alienated customers, failed to adequately provide AOG support on the level Boeing does all to bleed the commercial side off as a tax loss and offset the profits the military side was bringing in, that worked just fine until the military side started to dry up and no one was interested in their, by now antiquated airliner designs.
While commercial was cranking out designs from the 60's with little updating (all very fine and great airplanes and I am a huge Douglas fan especially the 9 series and the 10's) Boeing evolved all their lines including the hastily designed 737 and
new and improved, better performing designs developed and built with customer inputs that killed off any slim chances MickeyD might have had.

Boeings biggest mistake was retaining the guys who rode Long Beach into a smoking hole, and then putting them in charge of the place after Phil Condit (a great engineer, but couldn't get a consensis if he talked to himself, and couldn't herd ducks with a long stick) had his meltdown over the original tanker dealings. So they put Stonecypher in charge, he ran the LB store when it imploded, he was Mr. Integrity and ethics. until he was caught patting his secretary on the pooper and that caused Boeing to have to pay, in cash $615 MILLION in ethics violations to the Feds EEOC the biggest ethics fine ever, Thanks a bunch Harry-

_________________
Don't make me go get my flying monkeys-

If Piper and Cessna taught a generation (or two) to fly, Curtiss introduced a generation to the notion that it was possible to fly. No small feat in my book.

IMHO