BANNING ANNOUNCEMENT

Bluedharma · **Posted:** Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:02 pm

I am sad to hear the news that Bill was banned.
Bill is one of the few WIXers I have met, and as a Colorado warbird fan it was always a pleasure to talk to him and read his posts.

I have always loved warbirds, but it was renewed after seeing Bill Greenwood in his Spitfire (TE308 - N308WK) up at Estes Park, Colorado for a scottish festival back in the 90s.
There is nothing like hearing the echo of the Spitfire engine in that mountain valley.
It really gets the blood running.

Bill is a good pilot, who cares a great deal about the safety of those flying with him. He also is quite passionate about his concerns for others. I guess that is why many of topics came up as they did.
As a Republican, it was hard to hear some of the topics, but I know his motivation was a caring for other people. That is what really matters.

It was due to Bill that I found WIX. I for one will be sad to see the loss of someone who had much to contribute to this forum.

Things are what they are... It is a shame that it has come to this.
Forward and onward.

Still, I will look forward to "warbird" posts... and to Bill flying the Colorado skies!

Best Regards,
Paul Gordon
bluedharmawix@gmail.com

D17s · **Joined:** Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:01 pm **Posts:** 28

Bill met a friend of mine who as a shop worker earlier in life had helped rebuild Bills spitfire. My friend ran accross Bill during a refueling stop in west Texas. He approached Bill and they talked about the spitfire, my friend, clark who was in a T-38 asked if he could possibly have a ride around the pattern as he had never gotten a rid in the plane prior to joning the Air Force. Bill replied give me a ride in the T-38 and I'll take you up in the Spitfire. Clark replied , sir its not my airplane to make such an offer. Bill replied sorry then. Clark ended up flying F-16's and ferrying an occasional P-51 around for Gerry Levitz so its no big deal but it does show a small glimmer of light into the real person. Just because you own a warbird does not make you right or a great person unless you are in your own Hanger and the doors closed.

mg42 · **Joined:** Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:41 am **Posts:** 20

how pathetic are you people, nobody standing up for poor old bill. even those who know him personally.

MOD EDIT.

This is a warning.

Ontario-Warbird · **Joined:** Tue Jun 14, 2005 8:56 pm **Posts:** 407

Wow thats a nice message to the guy who brings this forum to all of us.

I think you might need to go young man, no need for that crap talk here on WIX

Dave

Hellcat · **Posted:** Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:20 pm

OK so your friend was denied a ride from Bill Greenwood, I have never met Bill either and I'm sure he would deny me a ride too. But what's your point? Does this make Bill a bad person? I promise you if you or your friend walked up to Paul (t33driver) Vlado or who ever else flies warbirds? Eric Downing, would you get a ride? Probably not. I'm not defending Bill, other than his banning.

Use another example as your point here. That's not the best for this debate. In all respect of course. No malace here, just a very respectful debate.

BTW, the above post is not worth reading. Sorry Scott, you don't need that at all.

JDK · **Posted:** Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:29 pm

mg42 wrote:

how pathetic are you people, nobody standing up for poor old bill. even those who know him personally.

Hmmm. I see quite a few people 'sticking up for Bill' here, but accepting, unlike Bill, that it's Scott's forum and rules, and that maybe Bill stepped over the line.

Incidentally, 'I stuck up for Bill' last time he was canned. This time he made it clear he wasn't interested in anyone's advice. Bill's banned because of Bill's actions, and he was given more chances than most - or were deserved, given the personal attacks and ignoring warnings and other's rights.

Thank you.

JDK

Moonlight · **Posted:** Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:29 pm

Hellcat wrote:

OK so your friend was denied a ride from Bill Greenwood, I have never met Bill either and I'm sure he would deny me a ride too. But what's your point? Does this make Bill a bad person? I promise you if you or your friend walked up to Paul (t33driver) Vlado or who ever else flies warbirds? Eric Downing, would you get a ride? Probably not. I'm not defending Bill, other than his banning.

Use another example as your point here. That's not the best for this debate.

I think the point is that the guy in the story was one of the fellows who rebuilt Bill's Spitfire. I totally get being wary of giving a ride to a stranger who walks up off the street. But if it's someone who helped rebuild your bird, that's a different story. We've given rides to line guys that went out of their way to help us out. It's just what you do, and frankly, one of the reasons I got into these things in the first place. Some of my favorite flights in the T-bird are with people who want to be around warbirds so much they were willing to mop the floor if the need be. Knowing that the flight is something they will never forget makes every other facet of flying a warbird worth it. Even the cost of the fuel.

Bluedharma · **Posted:** Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:29 pm

mg42 wrote:

xxxxxxxxxxx

?? Not all of us are happy with what is.
I would only ask you to please handle this with style.
Thank you.

D17s · **Joined:** Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:01 pm **Posts:** 28

My point was that Bill does or did not give out rides at will as a post a couple previous to mine elluded to as an example of his being a great guy.As T-33 rides I've already flown them AKA Robert Divalle's and As far as Eric I've met him quite a few times since he's my daughters stepfather and he seems like a really nice guy so I would be suprised if the answer was no but I have never asked.

hang the expense · **Posted:** Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:33 pm

D17s wrote:

Bill met a friend of mine who as a shop worker earlier in life had helped rebuild Bills spitfire. My friend ran accross Bill during a refueling stop in west Texas. He approached Bill and they talked about the spitfire, my friend, clark who was in a T-38 asked if he could possibly have a ride around the pattern as he had never gotten a rid in the plane prior to joning the Air Force. Bill replied give me a ride in the T-38 and I'll take you up in the Spitfire. Clark replied , sir its not my airplane to make such an offer. Bill replied sorry then. Clark ended up flying F-16's and ferrying an occasional P-51 around for Gerry Levitz so its no big deal but it does show a small glimmer of light into the real person. Just because you own a warbird does not make you right or a great person unless you are in your own Hanger and the doors closed.

VERY TELLING is all I will say.

kenair · **Posted:** Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:39 pm

This will be my last post on this topic.

When we ban speech, we all collectively lose. This fall I had the pleasure of working with a civil engineering phd student from Iran. He's been in Canada since 2006.

What he finds the most amazing freedom we have, is the ability to say publicly what we want, if I want to say the PM of Canda is a jerk, I can go to our capital, stand outside Parliment and say it.

Words can only cut if you let them.

I met Bill once, at the OSH WIX gathering in 07, what a treat to share a beer with him, I found him very humble, very nice.

If the ban stays, Bill moves on, and we all lose on wix. work some thing out, get errr done!

Bluedharma · **Posted:** Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:40 pm

I know that Bill has a weight limit for safety reasons...
but he does give rides.
http://tinkll1.livejournal.com/6780.html

It is not fair to claim he never gives rides when he is not here to defend himself.

Hellcat · **Posted:** Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:40 pm

I agree with the above posts. There's no denying that Bill crossed a few lines, but I agree with a certain amount of apprehension as well. Bill has never REALLY attacked anyone. He simply attacked the inner soul of many here who, in my opinion, need to spend some time looking in the mirror. You can disagree all you want with me, but I sleep just fine at night. If you allow a person like Bill Greenwood to get the better of you, then you might want to visit my world a few months ago before I began to understand the wonderful world on internet forums. You guys are my first shot at this crazy sport. I seem to have a lot to learn yet. But as far as Bill Greenwood? ... I hope many of you handle much worst problems in life better.

This should be it for me. I can't imagine anything else to say ... I'm sure Bill will move on to others websites.

M

JDK · **Posted:** Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:44 pm

Can I please ask people to (re-)read my earlier post regarding some of the background to the banning.

Personally, and as a Mod, I don't care what anyone's political views are, as long as they respect others views (even if they disagree) allow others to express those views (without treating others with contempt or sarcasm) even if differing from them.

Good manners and respect count for a lot. Latterly Bill decided he didn't need those, because he was 'right'.

Numerous people, including those involved with Spitfire have walked away or stopped posting on WIX because of Bill's behaviour.

They had adhered to the rules and guidelines, but Bill repeatedly refused to do so.

I offered to buy Bill a drink, to agree to disagree, and move on for everyone's benefit. Bill 'joked' that the drink I'd buy him would be poisoned (poor taste, IMHO) and then made it absolutely clear that my advice was unwanted and that I shouldn't post on WIX where he trod.

Up to then I had a lot of time for Bill. After that, and after saying he knew nothing about railway preservation in the UK and Australia - followed by a sarcastic and contemptuous rant on the topic directed at me, I was no longer prepared to defend him.

One small benefit is that Bill has more time to ski, now, and can concentrate on getting his Spitfire back in the air, rather than helping us all politically. I'm sure we all want Bill's Spitfire flying again, and wish him the best with that.

There's only one member that's bigger than the forum and that's Scott.

Can we now, please, more onto warbirds.

Thank you.

Hellcat · **Posted:** Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:54 pm

JDK, with all due respect, you or your moderator actions, have nothing to do with this debate. I, and hopefully we, have no problem with you or your history with Bill Greenwood. I personally completely understand your side of anything that happened with Bill Greenwood. Don't get confused here James. I'm not Bill's pal. I have never met him. I just hate double standards. I'm a fair man, always have been, always will be, but If you ban Bill, you might as well ban me too, and several other members who think it's fine to insult. degrade and make fun of other members, that would include you too James. But who's counting right? ... let's just learn from this and move on and try to get along. I'm willing to have a beer with you James but I don't remember you asking me to have a beer .. :wink:

BTW James ... this thread has nothing to do with warbirds does it? .... Am I the only one noticing this? ... that's a joke for the thin skinned ... :wink:

BTW, BTW ... for those of you who think I'm rambling on and on about Greenwood's ban. Too bad!!!!, the guy earned a bit of defense and support. He F*cked up and got banned, that's life, but he at least deserves a bit of support. He gave much more than he got credit for. He also made his bed too.

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