sunken military aircraft /ships protected

Warhawk · **Posted:** Sat Mar 26, 2005 7:41 pm

If you don't mind Rob I'll field this one for you.

The short answer to your question warbirdfinder is no.

Rob's spelling is all part of the wonderfulness of Rob and is something you will learn to accept, given enough time. You will find that you can tell just how excited Rob is about a particular subject due to his spelling going downhill rapidly, especially if he is really upset.

You are not the first, and I'm sure you won't be the last, who will ask such a question, in all innocence, of Rob. However it will only serve to stir a pot better left unstirred.

Not that it's all that hard to stir up the Colonel in the first
place :nuker:

If my sticking my nose in here is out of line then I apologize. It's just that we have been down this road before and I see no real reason to go there again.

Mick Grinter · **Posted:** Sat Mar 26, 2005 7:59 pm

It's just pollys they make enemys by interfering ,and fore some strange reason they kick the crap out of the only ones that can protect them.
Well all i can say is let the bad guys have them.

Jeff Funk · **Posted:** Sat Mar 26, 2005 8:53 pm

I respectively suggest that Warhawk's well reasoned response in Col Rohr's defense be considered as a permanent sticky. :lol:

Warhawk · **Posted:** Sat Mar 26, 2005 9:48 pm

Please do not misinterpret my remarks. They are not a defense per se. They are simply an explanation of what is, in response to warbirdfinders question. I've seen others go down this path before, both here and on the FP board.

The result has never been good.

This old hillbilly just thought he would poke his nose in and try to head it all off before it got started.........again. :rolleyes:

Edit: And with that, let's try to get back on topic before we spiral out of control here. :axe:

Taras · **Joined:** Sun Jun 13, 2004 4:49 pm **Posts:** 89

I think Congress will find their Act will offended every present and former naval aviator just as the actions of the Naval Historic Center have done.

As for the spelling thing, if you type your posts in Word, the spelling can be corrected there, then you cut from Word and paste here.

Taras

Chris Brame · **Posted:** Sun Mar 27, 2005 6:52 am

Colonel, I've got no problem with your spelling - at least you always have something interesting to say. I've been a proofreader for many years and you'd be surprised how many supposedly educated people (i.e. lawyers) can't write worth a cent :roll:

. As to the subject at hand, I'm just sorry that the only TBDs we'll probably live to see will be in pictures... They have only themselves to blame.

Don Martin · **Posted:** Sun Mar 27, 2005 10:33 am

Just watch the eveneing news and you'll see some REALLY BAD use of the English language! :shock:

Taras · **Joined:** Sun Jun 13, 2004 4:49 pm **Posts:** 89

The thing that most amazes me is that in all these years the Naval Historical Center has never asked us at A. and T. Recovery how we could work together to achieve an outcome that would be beneficial for the American people. When Capt. Rasmussen became director of the National Museum of Naval Aviation that was something he did very quickly, the result was dozens of US Navy airplanes preserved and presented to the American public for as far into the future as one could foresee.

We at A. and T. Recovery have tried over and over again to work with the Naval Historical Center. At every turn in the road, rather than seek to find solution to requirements and other obstacles the NHC has sought to complicate any effort that would allow the American public the opportunity to retain its important history.

What is truly sad is that over the many years A. and T. Recovery has located so many historically significant airplanes, to include multiple TBDs (not the ones people talk about), that I fear will forever be lost to time because of the NHC.

Taras

kennsmithf2g · **Posted:** Mon Mar 28, 2005 10:52 pm

Question,

Since the NHC has claimed "ownership" over vertially everything military that is not recovered and some that has been, does it also have the fiscal liability of damage caused by such property, such as water/soil pollution from leaking systems, people getting hurt on them , live ordance issues? I remember reading in the lat 60's or 70's of WWII ordance being caught in fishermen's nets and such. If I didn't read about it on this website, I would not know about the NHC or these tytpes of issues. How is the general public supposed to know about these things?

While there might be liability issues associated with private ownership of ex-milatary equipment, why couldn't guidelines be hammer out to allow salvage and restoration by qualified museums/organization that can demonstrate that they have the means to do such and assign liabilities to such museums/organizations?

Kenn

Taras · **Joined:** Sun Jun 13, 2004 4:49 pm **Posts:** 89

As for the liability issue I do not know what would be an answer.

As for the idea of other museums and organizations:

The National Museum of Naval Aviation has always worked with other museums (such as San Diego Air and Space) and organizations to recover, restore, and present the airplanes. It is my impression they have hundreds of airplanes out on loan. For example, The SBD at Midway Airport, which is on loan to the City of Chicago, is a joint effort between the National Museum of Naval Aviation, The Naval Aviation Museum Foundation, The Department of Aviation for the City of Chicago, MacDonalds, Boeing, Southwest Airlines, Epstein International, McCormick Tribune Foundation, The Navy League of Chicago, Leopardo Companies, A. and T. Recovery, The Chicago Marine Heritage Society, The Air Force Museum, Crowley’s Yacht Yard, D.H. Rumsfeld Foundation, pilot veterans of the Battle of Midway, other naval veterans, many other organizations and individuals.

The Naval Historical Center just does not get it, because they seem to be nothing more than simple minded egotistical control freaks with their only purpose in life to expand their bureaucracy and try to impress the archeological community.

If you ever wish to understand what the archeological community’s true intentions are remember the one fact that always seems to sum it up: one of the most powerful branches of Nazi Germany’s SS was the archeological division, and they went all over Europe and stole everything and locked it away from society. They used that age old claim of the oppressor that their actions were because they were protecting. As F.A. Hayek asked in his book The Road to Serfdom, for who, for whom.

Taras

Ps. I think the time has come to let America know the truth.

kennsmithf2g · **Posted:** Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:52 pm

Taras,

I saw the SBD at Midway and sat on my suitcase looking at her for the three hours that I had to wait for my flight wishing that I had remembered my camera. Boy, did she look nice! Luckily I have several articles on her.

I have run into simular types of people that hord and hide away pictures and information on the Cleveland Air races that I research. One guy, now deceased, used to brag about how he would rip pages out of books and magazines in library collections so no-one else would have access to the information!

We need to remember our history and see it in person least we forget and sacrifice our future by repeating the past. My own experience with my 14 year old son and his friends show that their generation is not a static museum type. But take them to an airshow where they can see, hear, and smell and that wets their interest. One of the coolest events from my youth (60's) was when the Air Reserve would buzz the Memorial Day parade right on the deck. Oh the noise, the heat, the wind blast!

Kenn

Wolverine · **Posted:** Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:53 pm

Taras wrote:

What is truly sad is that over the many years A. and T. Recovery has located so many historically significant airplanes, to include multiple TBDs (not the ones people talk about), that I fear will forever be lost to time because of the NHC.

Taras

WHAAAAAAT??!!!?!!!?!?! :shock:

There's more than three?

What can you tell us?

Wolverine · **Posted:** Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:55 am

How many? What BuNos? WHERE???? (only answer the last one if possible)

Taras · **Joined:** Sun Jun 13, 2004 4:49 pm **Posts:** 89

Sorry, but I would never answer those questions.

Taras

Dan K · **Posted:** Fri Apr 01, 2005 2:15 pm

Thank you, Taras.

Wolverine: Nothing personal--but you must understand that the "good" Dr. N. reads all our mail here.

Perhaps one day he will be inclined to share his plans with our community of restorers and enthusiasts.

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