Aircraft Rides and a clarification of an earlier post.

Bluedharma · **Posted:** Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:50 pm

I am very curious...

About 2 weeks ago, we had all that "nasty drama" regarding banning and so forth.
( I do not want to revisit that...) repeat… ( I do not want to revisit that...)

But there was something said that got me thinking...

Quote:

Bill met a friend of mine who as a shop worker earlier in life had helped rebuild Bills spitfire.
My friend ran across Bill during a refueling stop in west Texas. He approached Bill and they talked about the spitfire, my friend, Clark who was in a T-38 asked if he could possibly have a ride around the pattern as he had never gotten a rid in the plane prior to joining the Air Force.
Bill replied give me a ride in the T-38 and I'll take you up in the Spitfire. Clark replied, sir it is not my airplane to make such an offer.
Bill replied sorry then.

Now I have researched the Spitfire TE308 a year ago... and knowing Bill from air events...this really shocked me.
http://www.airport-data.com/articles/view/Spitfire-MK9-TE308-History-N308WK;58.html

I followed up with the individual who said the above quote...and it looks like it was a misunderstanding.
They said "Clark" worked on the aircraft in 1980.
Bill bought it in 1983. So it was just one of those things... Maybe people were in a hurry... or he didn't know about this guys past... whatever...
I know that Bill gives rides to people who have worked on his aircraft and so forth...when time allows.
I think he would even give rides to those he knew worked on it in the past. He may not have known about this person or was on a tight schedule.

So to my question...
I am not a pilot. If you own an aircraft, then what is the "unwritten courtesy" rules regarding aircraft rides.
I imagine you would give a ride to anyone who may have contributed to your aircraft, or who shows a genuine interest in your aircraft.
But is it that common to give rides to people at events?

( Again, I do not want to revisit the banning issue... Regardless how you feel about Bill,
he is very courteous at air events. I am sure he is quite fair when it comes to rides.)

I am interested in how pilots handle the "ride" issue. With the liability and demand for rides… price of fuel...it must be quite overwhelming for most of you.
Thanks for any input you may have on this.

**MODS please pull this if it gets out of hand... I want an adult talk about this. thanks **

Best Regards,

Jack Cook · **Posted:** Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:33 pm

If you're doing a job and you got paid...end of story. No one owes you a thing. I've always felt coming up to someone and asking for a ride was
just plain rude. If you're helping someone out do they owe you. If that's
you thinking that's a shame :idea:

Bluedharma · **Posted:** Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:27 pm

Thanks Jack.
I really didn't know the answer to this one.

I guess with Photography it is a bit different for me.
I take warbird photos... and I give most of them away for free for the pilots to have. After all they are flying the aircraft, so I try to give back.

Still, I guess it would bother me if it was expected...

Regarding aircraft I think you are right. It should not be asked for or expected. But manners and courtesy should be the rule.
Thanks again!

JDK · **Posted:** Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:03 pm

I've been offered, and given, rides for help I've undertaken for owners and operators. I've never demanded a ride for a job, or made a job conditional on a ride. Generally, the work I can offer doesn't add up to the gas a ride costs.

Where I've been able to take photos, as a courtesy I've offered free enlarged copies (and or a CD ROM these days) to the owners and operator as appropriate. It's just, IMHO, good manners, and means I'm welcome back too.

On one occasion I made a joint-owner's day by sending him a few shots which were unexpected, because he was usually 'overlooked' in these cases.

JDK · **Posted:** Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:06 pm

Mod Ed: I've just moved this into the Hangar as it's more relevant there IMHO.

Bluedharma · **Posted:** Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:06 pm

JDK wrote:

On one occasion I made a joint-owner's day by sending him a few shots which were unexpected, because he was usually 'overlooked' in these cases.

That is a good idea! I had not considered that.
I should make sure that I provide some photos to joint-owners (if there are any) thanks!

mike furline · **Joined:** Wed May 05, 2004 3:45 pm **Posts:** 2635

I've volunteered on alot of different aircraft over the past 26 years. There where a lot of promises, but the outcome was very few rides.
One example, getting a 20 minute T-6 ride after "VOLUNTEERING" 2 1/2 years of my time putting it back together.

This is somewhat of a generalization, but "Warbird Owners" have offered to let me work on thier aircraft for FREE far more times than ever offering me a ride.

Simply put, if someone needs my signature and A&P number they will have to pay for it.

Regards,
Mike

Bluedharma · **Posted:** Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:52 pm

Thanks guys.
I guess it just got me thinking. This "Clark" guy sounded pretty mad... but he never worked for Bill, or on any aircraft that Bill had. (My research about 1983 on I found that the spit was only worked on in Fort Collins... a Colorado town. )
A assumption was made...then a disappointment. Then you get a character judgement based on something that really didn't happen.
All this assumption gets passed on to others who don't know what happened.

I imagine that this type of thing happens to others as well. It all sounds like a pain. I would hate it if someone talked "smack" about me regarding my photos because of an assumption.

I guess it is best to not expect anything for volunteering, and if the ride happens...then it happens. But to assume it should happen is only going to lead to a disappointment in most cases.
Thank for the input everyone.

Best Regards

warbird51 · **Joined:** Fri Jan 14, 2005 1:18 pm **Posts:** 263

I started volunteering working on warbirds in 1980 when I was still working as a mechanic at United Airlines. I didn't do the work to get any rides or such out of it, other than being able to help out on warbirds. As they got to know me and figured out I wasn't looking for anything other than being involved and helping out, the doors opened wide and I was treated as "one of them" I have been very fortunate to work on and fly in some pretty incredible warbirds since that time. I am seni-retired now and I work 4 days a week restoring warbirds. I started going to the Reno Air Races in 1972 and I remember sitting in the stands saying to my friends, how great it would be to work on warbirds and be on an Unlimited race crew. That dream came true in 1985 when I was invited on a Unlimited race team. I have been crewing ever since. The best part though, has been meeting and becoming friends with people in the warbird community. I value the friendships I've made as much as the warbirds I have been blessed to be involved with.

I am still living my dream, but now I do make some money doing what I love. As the old beer tv ad says "It doesn't get any better than this"!!! :finga:

gary1954 · **Posted:** Sun Feb 01, 2009 2:43 pm

Jack Cook wrote:

If you're doing a job and you got paid...end of story. No one owes you a thing. I've always felt coming up to someone and asking for a ride was
just plain rude. If you're helping someone out do they owe you. If that's
you thinking that's a shame :idea:

I have been to a number of Air Shows in my brief life, and I think I would rather fall on a grenade than ask a warbird owner/operator for a ride just because.
If I am "offered" a ride, which has only happened once in (thank you Tom Reilly) 34 years, then count me in.

LadyO2Pilot · **Posted:** Sun Feb 01, 2009 2:51 pm

Another side of the story.

As a pilot/owner I am asked all the time at shows for rides. If I have no idea who the person is I usually say politely that I cannot give rides during airshows. If I do know the person I might say the same thing with the caveat that maybe the next time I’m in the area and we can arrange a flight, we’ll try. If someone has helped me with the plane, I will offer a ride if we can arrange it in the future; that being predicated on the fact that the plane, person and I are all in the same place at the same time…LOL. As for my hometown buds who have helped with the plane or I just like, I have offered rides to shows if I knew they were going to drive or other forays for the $100 hamburger.

When fuel got so high prices I stopped all my personal flying and just flew to and from shows, so that cut out any possible joyriding for friends or helpers. They understand the economics of it. I have also been offered purchase of fuel for a ride and have done that and will continue if the scheduling works.

I have also been asked by museums and reunions groups to give rides and arrangements have been made by museum/groups so my expenses are recouped from those taking the rides.

Have I ever turned people down….yes. Perfect strangers asking for rides who have no connection to the plane or me aren’t going to get a ride but I am polite in my refusal. People who for various reasons should not be taken for a ride – medical or similar – are not going; here again a polite explanation. Circumstances that prevent me doing it – weather, during an airshow, not being able to arrange a meeting place for ride; these situations could change for the better another time.

And still another side.....many years past I volunteered working on several warbirds.....I never asked for rides. I was blessed to have been given rides in many warbirds back then, more than I worked on....but the invitation came unsolicited.

daveymac82c · **Posted:** Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:16 pm

Let me just begin by saying that I think it is kind of rude to ask for a flight... Unless it is for a WWII who a flight would really mean a heck of a lot to, and chances are, that veteran would be too polite to ask for it.

I get the feeling that a lot of people hope and sometimes expect to get flights in return for services or whatever. I think this is slightly wishful thinking.

I've always dreamed of going for a flight in a warbird, but I dare never ask.

I started volunteering at the Canadian Museum of Flight when I was 10 years old. I'd work really hard, and get a lot of satisfaction out of work I was doing towards the preservation of our airplanes. I always dreamed about going flying in one of our airplanes someday.

That day didn't come until I was 22 years old. I didn't ask, but rather was offered to go out to the Hope Flight Fest in our museum's Fleet Finch, and then the return flight in our Tiger Moth (an hour each way). It was really fantastic, and the funniest part was that for some reason everyone expected that I'd been up in both planes before, several times even, because I've been around the museum so long, but when I told them it was my first time they were actually quite shocked and surprised.

Whatever though. I got to go up, and it was great.

On another note, I've been in the aviation world for a fairly long time considering my age, and it's kind of funny how many times I've been offered to go flying, but that's all it's been... an offer.

Somebody may say "Oh Dave, I gotta take you flying in my _____ sometime."

But, I've never taken anybody up on their offers and of course there was always a reason why the flight couldn't happen right at the time of the offer. Maybe I'm too polite, but I find it hard to ask someone "So, remember way back when you offered me a flight in your plane???"

I think I'm rambling.....

Ah well, there's my loose change.

-David

gary1954 · **Posted:** Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:43 pm

Know what ya mean Dave, I just don't like that feeling like I'm putting somebody out

LadyO2Pilot · **Posted:** Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:52 pm

David and Gary,

I can only speak for myself. I regret not being able at this time to follow up on offers made...and I remember them. I remember 10-15 years ago how much flying we all did just for fun....cuz it was a pretty day. Here again, only speaking for myself....the expenses have gotten so high in recent years, I do not have the money to just go joy riding...so much so, I make a 10 hour round trip drive about twice a month rather than only spending 3 hours doing it in the plane. Even while auto fuel got high it was hard to justify the much higher avgas even when comparing time saved flying.

Maybe with all fuel costs getting lower there will be more of those rides freely offered and given. I hope so for y'all.

Xrayist · **Joined:** Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:51 am **Posts:** 325

I personally don't think it is rude to ask for a ride. Apparently I go against the prevailing wind, so to speak, but if you ask politely one of two things will happen..you will be turned down or you will get the thrill of a lifetime.
I met Howard Pardue at an airshow...he went over, and he asked Bill Arnot if he would take me up in Silver Lady. Bill was kind enough to say yes and I had my first warbird ride. I really don't think Mr. Pardue was being rude, but then again with some of the replies to this post so far, he was being exceptionally rude.

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Aircraft Rides and a clarification of an earlier post.

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