Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:56 pm
Hi Mike,
From what I have been told she will not be finished in time to make it this year, but here's hopin' for 2006!!
Karen
From what I have been told she will not be finished in time to make it this year, but here's hopin' for 2006!!
Karen
P-51B
Thu Apr 07, 2005 3:00 pm
Painting all your airplanes the same shows a complete lack of imagination. I should know has all 3 of our AT-6s are painted the same!
I think the authentic markings are to plain for his taste. The 111th TRS Snoopers markings would be a better alternate choice.
I think the authentic markings are to plain for his taste. The 111th TRS Snoopers markings would be a better alternate choice.
Thu Apr 07, 2005 3:16 pm
Hi All,
I think I may have stumbled on to a clue concerning the Disney art on the tail of this Mustang.
Below is a brief history of the 54th FG. As you read, you'll notice that the group was recalled from service in Alaska, attached to the 3rd Air Force, and became a P-51 replacement pilot outfit. Notice when it was stationed at Bartow.
The artwork is that of the 56th Squadron of the 54th FG. Perhaps Bartow AAF adopted it as their insignia as well.
54th Fighter Group
Constituted as 54th Pursuit Group (Interceptor) on 20 Nov 1940. Activated on 15 Jan 1941. Trained with P-40's. Served as a part of the defense force for the northwest Pacific coast during the first few months of the war. Redesignated 54th Fighter Group in May 1942. The air echelon, equipped with P-39's, served in Alaska against the Japanese forces that invaded the Aleutian Islands during the summer of 1942, and for these operations the group received a DUC. The air echelon returned to the US in Dec 1942 and rejoined the group, which had been assigned to Third AF, and which became a replacement training unit for P-51 pilots. Disbanded on 1 May 1944.
Reconstituted and redesignated 54th Fighter Group (Air Defense), on 20 Jun 1955. Activated on 18 Aug 1955. Assigned to Air Defense Command and equipped with F-86's.
Squadrons. 42d: 1941-1944; 1955-. 56th: 1941-1944. 57th: 1941-1944.
Stations. Hamilton Field, Calif, 15 Jan 1941; Everett, Wash, 26 Jun 1941; Harding Field, La, 31 Jan 1942; Bartow AAFld, Fla, 11 May 1943-1 May 1944. Greater Pittsburgh Aprt, Pa, 18 Aug 1955-.
Commanders. Capt Harry A Hammond, 15 Jan 1941; Col Phineas K Morrill, Feb 1941; Col Charles M McCorkle, 12 Sep 1942; Lt Col George B Greene Jr, 11 Aug 1943; Lt Col Ward W Harker, 17 Sep 1943; Col Joseph S Holtoner, 6 Mar-1 May 1944. Col Edward F Roddy, 1955-.
I think I may have stumbled on to a clue concerning the Disney art on the tail of this Mustang.
Below is a brief history of the 54th FG. As you read, you'll notice that the group was recalled from service in Alaska, attached to the 3rd Air Force, and became a P-51 replacement pilot outfit. Notice when it was stationed at Bartow.
The artwork is that of the 56th Squadron of the 54th FG. Perhaps Bartow AAF adopted it as their insignia as well.
54th Fighter Group
Constituted as 54th Pursuit Group (Interceptor) on 20 Nov 1940. Activated on 15 Jan 1941. Trained with P-40's. Served as a part of the defense force for the northwest Pacific coast during the first few months of the war. Redesignated 54th Fighter Group in May 1942. The air echelon, equipped with P-39's, served in Alaska against the Japanese forces that invaded the Aleutian Islands during the summer of 1942, and for these operations the group received a DUC. The air echelon returned to the US in Dec 1942 and rejoined the group, which had been assigned to Third AF, and which became a replacement training unit for P-51 pilots. Disbanded on 1 May 1944.
Reconstituted and redesignated 54th Fighter Group (Air Defense), on 20 Jun 1955. Activated on 18 Aug 1955. Assigned to Air Defense Command and equipped with F-86's.
Squadrons. 42d: 1941-1944; 1955-. 56th: 1941-1944. 57th: 1941-1944.
Stations. Hamilton Field, Calif, 15 Jan 1941; Everett, Wash, 26 Jun 1941; Harding Field, La, 31 Jan 1942; Bartow AAFld, Fla, 11 May 1943-1 May 1944. Greater Pittsburgh Aprt, Pa, 18 Aug 1955-.
Commanders. Capt Harry A Hammond, 15 Jan 1941; Col Phineas K Morrill, Feb 1941; Col Charles M McCorkle, 12 Sep 1942; Lt Col George B Greene Jr, 11 Aug 1943; Lt Col Ward W Harker, 17 Sep 1943; Col Joseph S Holtoner, 6 Mar-1 May 1944. Col Edward F Roddy, 1955-.
Thu Apr 07, 2005 3:27 pm
Dan - you rock !
(and you beat me to it)...... It indeed is the insigna of the 56th FS 54th FG.
Martin
(and you beat me to it)...... It indeed is the insigna of the 56th FS 54th FG.
Martin
Thu Apr 07, 2005 3:44 pm
Beginner's luck I assure you, Martin. 
Thanks for posting the photo. Neat stuff.
Thanks for posting the photo. Neat stuff.
Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:01 pm
Oh my Gosh!
Guys I think I am walking on air!! You guys are the greatest!! Dan thank you so much!!!! Now, I need to find a good color photo, which should be a lot easier now, since I have a fighter group to attach it to!!
Thank you!!!!
Karen
BTW, my Dad thanks you all too!!!!
Guys I think I am walking on air!! You guys are the greatest!! Dan thank you so much!!!! Now, I need to find a good color photo, which should be a lot easier now, since I have a fighter group to attach it to!!
Thank you!!!!
Karen
BTW, my Dad thanks you all too!!!!
Last edited by KarenG on Fri Apr 08, 2005 7:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
56FG, 54FS
Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:44 pm
Karen, I too am disappointed in Mr. Roush's decision. Regardless of the
"plainess" of a bare-aluminum P-51..it would have certainly been
distinctive! I mean, how many flying warbirds display the original markings
on the original machine, and honor it's last pilot-in-service??
Karen, good luck on finding a color photo..but will a color orginal "rooster"
patch help for now? 90 bux is a bit rich fer my blood..but..here's a link..
Edit,
Karen, In editing this post I discovered that the original example of the
patch is the last one they have..So, I'll send you a PM with the
website address to give you a shot at obtaining it, if you desire.
Best Wishes,
Jim
"plainess" of a bare-aluminum P-51..it would have certainly been
distinctive! I mean, how many flying warbirds display the original markings
on the original machine, and honor it's last pilot-in-service??
Karen, good luck on finding a color photo..but will a color orginal "rooster"
patch help for now? 90 bux is a bit rich fer my blood..but..here's a link..
Edit,
Karen, In editing this post I discovered that the original example of the
patch is the last one they have..So, I'll send you a PM with the
website address to give you a shot at obtaining it, if you desire.
Best Wishes,
Jim
Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:00 pm
Karen, Martin, Mike et al--
An idea that probably won't go anywhere...But: Does anyone on WIX know Jack Roush at all well? It strikes me that the livery of this P-51B, except for the artwork on the fin and the "L5", is straight-ahead factory finish. Silver with stars-and-bars and serials. Could 43-12252 not make her first few flights in bare metal with "decal" markings (in rather the manner of the overall white FG-1D flown last fall)? I well recall Mr Roush's second P-51D debuting at Yankee a couple years back with no markings on her at all, just primer...so very cool. Maybe the B could likewise, for a short period, wear her Stateside livery (in decal form), THEN go into the paintshop for her permanent 357FG/8AF scheme as is Mr Roush's wish? Anybody here know Mr Roush well enough to suggest an idea like that?
S.
An idea that probably won't go anywhere...But: Does anyone on WIX know Jack Roush at all well? It strikes me that the livery of this P-51B, except for the artwork on the fin and the "L5", is straight-ahead factory finish. Silver with stars-and-bars and serials. Could 43-12252 not make her first few flights in bare metal with "decal" markings (in rather the manner of the overall white FG-1D flown last fall)? I well recall Mr Roush's second P-51D debuting at Yankee a couple years back with no markings on her at all, just primer...so very cool. Maybe the B could likewise, for a short period, wear her Stateside livery (in decal form), THEN go into the paintshop for her permanent 357FG/8AF scheme as is Mr Roush's wish? Anybody here know Mr Roush well enough to suggest an idea like that?
S.
Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:59 pm
I would hope that the tail number at least stays accurate for the aircraft and that he could somehow work that decal into the final paint scheme...even if it wasn't historically accurate for the final paint scheme his chooses. The argument would be that the decal is more historically accurate for the aircraft than any alternate paint scheme he has in mind!
Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:09 pm
Met him at the Mustang gathering, but I thanked him for hiring Kevin Lepage (vt native) to one of his race teams in the Winston Cup.
Though that is sad that it will not be painted back in its markings. I had found a pic of some N3N's on floats in 1958 at Annapolis, and with a great suprise.........ours was one of them. So we repainted her exactly as she was in 1959,,,,,,,,,minus the floats.
If any of you have pics of the airstation at that time, I would love to see them!!!!
Though that is sad that it will not be painted back in its markings. I had found a pic of some N3N's on floats in 1958 at Annapolis, and with a great suprise.........ours was one of them. So we repainted her exactly as she was in 1959,,,,,,,,,minus the floats.
If any of you have pics of the airstation at that time, I would love to see them!!!!
Thu Apr 07, 2005 7:25 pm
Hi All,
In a perfect world Mr. Roush would decide to completely scrap his current plans for Dean's Mustang, and paint her silver with the "Snooper" nose art on the front, and the nifty Chicken on the tail. Granted it wouldn't be historically accurate as to the snooper logo, but, WOW! What a tribute that would be! I also envisioned a bust of Dean painted below the snooper logo, but that is just my dream for her!
You all are such a wonderful bunch of fellows! You have made me very happy today. I believe once again that whatever cloud Dean is currently soaring on he is smiling!! Thank you all so very much!!!
Best wishes always,
Karen
In a perfect world Mr. Roush would decide to completely scrap his current plans for Dean's Mustang, and paint her silver with the "Snooper" nose art on the front, and the nifty Chicken on the tail. Granted it wouldn't be historically accurate as to the snooper logo, but, WOW! What a tribute that would be! I also envisioned a bust of Dean painted below the snooper logo, but that is just my dream for her!
You all are such a wonderful bunch of fellows! You have made me very happy today. I believe once again that whatever cloud Dean is currently soaring on he is smiling!! Thank you all so very much!!!
Best wishes always,
Karen
56FS/54FG Patch
Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:35 pm
Karen agreed that $90 was a "bit stout" for an original, almost correct
patch(no stars surrounding the rooster). Here's a site where the fella
is selling off his extra patches etc. Scroll down to the second plate of
patches..top row, second from left..56th Ftr Sqn/54th Ftr Grp #1
About half way down the page...
http://members.aol.com/brimiljeep/WebPa ... AF369.html
A lotta neat patches there...
patch(no stars surrounding the rooster). Here's a site where the fella
is selling off his extra patches etc. Scroll down to the second plate of
patches..top row, second from left..56th Ftr Sqn/54th Ftr Grp #1
About half way down the page...
http://members.aol.com/brimiljeep/WebPa ... AF369.html
A lotta neat patches there...
Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:50 am
Karen G
Might I suggest you contact Mr. Roush and tell him your family story.
As a NASCAR team owner, Mustang modifier, Great Race participant, and Detroit big shot, I'm sure he has a legion of PR guys you could contact and ask them to forward a letter.
From all accounts Mr Roush is a real aviator...and anyone with 3 Mustangs has got to have a sense of aviation history, so your efforts may not fall on deaf ears. In any account, it's worth a try.
IMHO...you might suggest a compromise...perhaps suggesting he incorporate the tail design or nose number in memory of your uncle in whatever paint scheme he eventually chooses.
Might I suggest you contact Mr. Roush and tell him your family story.
As a NASCAR team owner, Mustang modifier, Great Race participant, and Detroit big shot, I'm sure he has a legion of PR guys you could contact and ask them to forward a letter.
From all accounts Mr Roush is a real aviator...and anyone with 3 Mustangs has got to have a sense of aviation history, so your efforts may not fall on deaf ears. In any account, it's worth a try.
IMHO...you might suggest a compromise...perhaps suggesting he incorporate the tail design or nose number in memory of your uncle in whatever paint scheme he eventually chooses.
Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:28 am
KarenG wrote:In a perfect world Mr. Roush would decide to completely scrap his current plans for Dean's Mustang, and paint her silver with the "Snooper" nose art on the front, and the nifty Chicken on the tail. Granted it wouldn't be historically accurate as to the snooper logo, but, WOW! What a tribute that would be! I also envisioned a bust of Dean painted below the snooper logo, but that is just my dream for her!
Karen, shoot me an e-mail...I believe I can help!
Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:09 am
Hi again
after looking closely at the print I am convinced that both the spinner and the "L5" code are red.
Martin
after looking closely at the print I am convinced that both the spinner and the "L5" code are red.
Martin