Brewster Buffalo

PeterA · **Posted:** Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:09 pm

Now on display.

See here. http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=88610

Scroll down to post 15.

Fascinating.

PeterA

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:20 pm

I never understood that whole thing. Who recovered it, and how did it end up in FL?

Jack Cook · **Posted:** Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:33 pm

The whole episode is still a great big bag of worms and I've got the
emails from the past 2 weeks to prove it. Right Brian :idea:

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:49 pm

the only thing I don't get is why the NMNA is getting such a great big black eye for trying to restore it.

Fouga23 · **Posted:** Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:10 pm

From what I remember reading in the past, some shady business guy smuggled it out of Russia and after some years it somehow ended up in the NMNA. I applaud them for loaning it to the Fins. It belongs there.

Nathan · **Posted:** Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:26 pm

Why would the NMNA loan the Brewster if they don't own it? I hope they know that Brewster is a BW372. Those models never served in the USN. :idea:

So if they wanted it then I am guessing the history behind it would be made inaccurate. I mean the NMNA would want it cause its as close to a F2A they will fine. So sure restore the bloody thing and "fool" everyone in thinking its a F2A but I will know otherwise. :roll:

old iron · **Posted:** Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:35 pm

Dan Ford on his warbirdforum.com web page has documented Brewster Buffalos and especially the long search for a surviving specimen. Check out http://www.warbirdforum.com/buff.htm.

NMNA had been looking for a Buffalo for a great many years. As mentioned above and detailed in Dan Ford's materials, the Finish Buffalo had a convoluted history but was finally purchased by NMNA and delivered to Pensacola. This airplane, of course, has such a significant combat Finish history that it would be a crime to repaint it in American (Battle of Midway?) markings, hence the (temporary?) return to Finland.

Kevin

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:06 pm

While, I agree with the ultimate move of loaning it to Findland, I think it is a bit wrong for some to deamand that they do it, after they bought it. WOuld we demand that a private owner do certain things with their aircraft? Once again I agree that it should keep it's history and go to where it went, but some of these threads have some scary people that trash the NMNA for no other reason than it is their hobby.

RMAllnutt · **Posted:** Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:24 pm

Nathan wrote:

Why would the NMNA loan the Brewster if they don't own it? I hope they know that Brewster is a BW372. Those models never served in the USN. :idea:

So if they wanted it then I am guessing the history behind it would be made inaccurate. I mean the NMNA would want it cause its as close to a F2A they will fine. So sure restore the bloody thing and "fool" everyone in thinking its a F2A but I will know otherwise. :roll:

Hi Nathan... not to nitpick, but it's a Brewster 239, roughly equivalent to an F2A-2. They are well aware of its heritage. It was flown by an ace, Lauri Pekuri, and has several kills to its credit.

BW372 is its Finnish serial number.

The reason it went to Finland on loan was mostly I think because the Fins kicked up a lot of fuss about ownership. Rather than get into a fight, or snub the Fins, the Navy Museum reached a reasonable agreement with them. I think it does deserve to be on show in Finland to be honest. They were the only ones who managed to figure out how to fight with them... they had an impressive 26-1 kill ratio against the Russians... better even than our Hellcat did in the Pacific at 19-1.

Cheers,
Richard

RMAllnutt · **Posted:** Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:26 pm

mustangdriver wrote:

I never understood that whole thing. Who recovered it, and how did it end up in FL?

Hi Chris... this has been well covered in the past. In a nutshell, Gary Villiard recovered it. Wanted millions for it. Took many years before eventually the Navy traded some P2V's for it (I believe 3). Ended up in storage at Pensacola for several years, with just conservation work done on her... then loaned to the Fins, who've concerved her beautifully, as you see now...

Cheers,
Richard

Nathan · **Posted:** Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:31 pm

RMAllnutt wrote:

Nathan wrote:

Why would the NMNA loan the Brewster if they don't own it? I hope they know that Brewster is a BW372. Those models never served in the USN. :idea:

So if they wanted it then I am guessing the history behind it would be made inaccurate. I mean the NMNA would want it cause its as close to a F2A they will fine. So sure restore the bloody thing and "fool" everyone in thinking its a F2A but I will know otherwise. :roll:

Hi Nathan... not to nitpick, but it's a Brewster 239, roughly equivalent to an F2A-2. They are well aware of its heritage. It was flown by an ace, Lauri Pekuri, and has several kills to its credit.

BW372 is its Finnish serial number.

The reason it went to Finland on loan was mostly I think because the Fins kicked up a lot of fuss about ownership. Rather than get into a fight, or snub the Fins, the Navy Museum reached a reasonable agreement with them. I think it does deserve to be on show in Finland to be honest. They were the only ones who managed to figure out how to fight with them... they had an impressive 26-1 kill ratio against the Russians... better even than our Hellcat did in the Pacific at 19-1.

Cheers,
Richard

oops sorry for the typo. I had copied and pasted the model number but i guess I missed and got the serial instead. :oops:

Thanks for the correction. Makes me look like a fool huh?

RMAllnutt · **Posted:** Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:34 pm

mustangdriver wrote:

While, I agree with the ultimate move of loaning it to Findland, I think it is a bit wrong for some to deamand that they do it, after they bought it. WOuld we demand that a private owner do certain things with their aircraft? Once again I agree that it should keep it's history and go to where it went, but some of these threads have some scary people that trash the NMNA for no other reason than it is their hobby.

Chris... I think it was a case of ownership issues. The Fins claimed that they owned BW372, having bought it in the first place. The US Navy has done this or tried to do this on a number of occasions themselves. Having set the precedent, it would have been a little tricky to not at least pay some attention to the Fins. I'm not sure how I feel about that of course... given that it was essentially discarded as wrecked, and would surely have been scrapped had she been found on the surface in earlier times. Just one of those things I guess...

Cheers,
Richard

RMAllnutt · **Posted:** Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:35 pm

Nathan wrote:

RMAllnutt wrote:

Nathan wrote:

Why would the NMNA loan the Brewster if they don't own it? I hope they know that Brewster is a BW372. Those models never served in the USN. :idea:

So if they wanted it then I am guessing the history behind it would be made inaccurate. I mean the NMNA would want it cause its as close to a F2A they will fine. So sure restore the bloody thing and "fool" everyone in thinking its a F2A but I will know otherwise. :roll:

Hi Nathan... not to nitpick, but it's a Brewster 239, roughly equivalent to an F2A-2. They are well aware of its heritage. It was flown by an ace, Lauri Pekuri, and has several kills to its credit.

BW372 is its Finnish serial number.

The reason it went to Finland on loan was mostly I think because the Fins kicked up a lot of fuss about ownership. Rather than get into a fight, or snub the Fins, the Navy Museum reached a reasonable agreement with them. I think it does deserve to be on show in Finland to be honest. They were the only ones who managed to figure out how to fight with them... they had an impressive 26-1 kill ratio against the Russians... better even than our Hellcat did in the Pacific at 19-1.

Cheers,
Richard

oops sorry for the typo. I had copied and pasted the model number but i guess I missed and got the serial instead. :oops:

Thanks for the correction. Makes me look like a fool huh?

Not at all Nathan... it's an easy thing to do.

Cheers,
Richard

Nathan · **Posted:** Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:40 pm

There is no one more in this world that would love to see a Buffalo and in U.S. markings then me. But given that this is a different model and has actual combat kills and history I can't see why no one wouldn't want the Finns to have it and to keep it in original condition. :?:

DaveM2 · **Posted:** Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:26 pm

And of course the Finns ( including the daughter of the pilot Pekuri) and the Russians who put up a large amount of time and money in 'partnership' were 'stiffed' along the way...as Jack said a real shambles.
Great to see the NMNA do the right thing and at least loan it out.

Dave

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