Where were ALL the B-17Bs on 7 Dec 1941?

[Holedigger]

I am seeing some data on 1 b-17 being at Ladd Field Alaska for cold testing at that time, 38-215 transfered to 36th BS, stripped of testing gear, loaded with a war load out of Umnak Field in May, crashed in July still wearing her day glow test pain.

http://www.geocities.com/tempelhof.geo/marksreport.html

[Chris Brame]

Aloha All,
The B-17Cs, Ds, and Es which came to/thru Hawaii by 7 Dec 1941 are known by serial...

I posted this a while back on the B-17s that arrived in Hawaii on December 7th:

The Baugher site had these 12 listed:

B-17C:
40-2049
40-2054
40-2063
40-2074

B-17E:
41-2408
41-2413
41-2416
41-2429
41-2430
41-2432
41-2433
41-2434

[Holedigger]

38-216 apparently was also at Ladd Field for "Cold Testing" but crashed in Nevada on Feb 6, 1941, no survivors.
. So if this data is correct, she was splattered on a mountain top in Nevada on Dec 7.
http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contribut ... d/4442.htm

[David_Aiken]

On 7 Dec 1941, there were 12 B-17Ds based at Hickam Field in the 11th and 5th BGs. Incoming from Hamilton Field, CA, were six B-17Es (7 BG, 88 RS) and 2 B-17Es and 4 B-17Cs (19 BG, 38 RS).

See the Baugher source within the Appendices in:

Leatrice Arakaki and John Kuborn's 7 DEC 1941: THE USAF STORY [Hickam AFB, HI: PacAF Office of History: 1991; reprinted Washington DC: GPO; 1992, 2000]

The above book is on line at:
http://contrails.iit.edu/history/7Decem ... index.html
Check Appendices in part IV... for serial numbers of incoming B-17s and crew list...and their source noted in the acknowledgements.

Last edited by David_Aiken on Wed May 13, 2009 10:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[David_Aiken]

38-216 apparently was also at Ladd Field for "Cold Testing" but crashed in Nevada on Feb 6, 1941, no survivors.
. So if this data is correct, she was splattered on a mountain top in Nevada on Dec 7.
http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contribut ... d/4442.htm

My error, now reads:
38-216 wrecked at Ladd Field, AK on 5 March 1943. Unit and location sought for 7 dec 1941.

Is there a typo in my source or yours?
TIA,
David Aiken

[Holedigger]

I have found two sources that say essentially the same thing about 38-216,

On February 6, 1941, while on a flight to Wright Field, Dayton, Ohio, USA, this aircraft was destroyed in a crash at Ragged Top Mountain, 19 mls (31 km) west of Lovelock, Nevada; there were no survivors among the crew of eight."
http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contribut ... d/4442.htm

and

216 crashed near Lovelock, NV while enroute to Wright Field Feb 6, 1941. All 8 killed.
http://home.att.net/~jbaugher/1938.html

seems rather cut-n-dried as there is a lot of matching detail between references.

[David_Aiken]

Thanx, Holedigger,
The aircraft history record card has a survey date which is unreadable...almost...perhaps this is the problem?

There is a NY Times report, dates, 7 and 8 Feb 1942, that a B-17 piloted by Capt Richard S Freeman was lost on 6 Feb 1942, 20 miles from Lovelock, NV at Ragged Top Mt.

Thanks for your great help,
Cheers,
David

[Holedigger]

History...chasing dates....the web makes it easier to find data, but easier to copy mistakes as well. Like Wikipedia, good for a basic source, but I try not to quote them unless I can find supporting evidence that has not been copied FROM Wikipedia! I have been chasing one of the other "B"s and found conflicting dates and crash info as well!

[TonyM]

38-216 apparently was also at Ladd Field for "Cold Testing" but crashed in Nevada on Feb 6, 1941, no survivors.
. So if this data is correct, she was splattered on a mountain top in Nevada on Dec 7.
http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contribut ... d/4442.htm

My error, now reads:
38-216 wrecked at Ladd Field, AK on 5 March 1943. Unit and location sought for 7 dec 1941.

Is there a typo in my source or yours?
TIA,
David Aiken

Here is the correct information:

B-17B # 38-216 crashed at Ragged Top Mountain, about 19 miles west of Lovelock, Nevada on 6 February 1941.

I have the Accident Report right here in front of me.

The pilot was Captain R.S. Freeman;
Freeman Field, Seymour, Indiana, was named after him.
He was the base commander at Ladd Field, Alaska, at the time of his death.

For a detailed summary of this accident see
Page 2, Volume I
FATAL ARMY AIR FORCES AVIATION ACCIDENTS
IN THE UNITED STATES, 1941-1945



TonyM.

[David_Aiken]

Howdy Tony,
The crash report is wonderful! Thanks!
Do you have any info which could reveal any B-17B's unit and location on 7 Dec 1941?
TIA,
David

[Holedigger]

Been drilling down through B-17 accidents close to that date to try to locate home bases and units. Doesn't nail down the Dec 7th date, but it is relevant data fro tracking movement.
38-222 3rd BG, 6thBH France Field CZ, 6/20/41
38-217 6thBS 29thBG MacDill Field 9/9/41
38-262 49th BS Wright Field (Accident at Langley) 10/3/41
38-267 49th BS 2nd BG Geiger Field (accident at Langley)
37-369 13th RS Bangor ME, 12/19/41

All this data found at
http://www.aviationarchaeology.com/src/search.htm

[Holedigger]

Here is a list of USAAC unit/AC Type(general type only) locations as of Dec 6, 41. Good data to help narrow search parameters if anyone else is crazy enough to data mine!!!

http://paul.rutgers.edu/~mcgrew/wwii/us ... ec.41.html

[David_Aiken]

Here is a list of USAAC unit/AC Type(general type only) locations as of Dec 6, 41. Good data to help narrow search parameters if anyone else is crazy enough to data mine!!!

http://paul.rutgers.edu/~mcgrew/wwii/us ... ec.41.html

The TOTAL number of units cited as having "B-17" are PERHAPS more than the number of B-17 prototype thru B-17Bs left in the western hemisphere...on 7 Dec 1941. The REST of the production [B-17C/D and B-17E] were -on 7 Dec- in the PI, Hawaii, four in repair at Hamilton Field, and in the 7th BG preparing for oversea shipment.