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Classic Wings Magazine WWII Naval Aviation Research Pacific Luftwaffe Resource Center
When Hollywood Ruled The Skies - Volumes 1 through 4 by Bruce Oriss


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:06 am 
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Chris said about the WPAFB F-4;
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THe USAF had so well upkept the aircraft that they hooked up a power cart to it, and extended the landing gear on it's own power.


Gotta call BS on this one Chris. No way this could happen. Never seen a pole sitter F-4 with the engines left in. That adds close to 10,000 lbs of weight. Every F-4 gate guard I've looked at has had valuable parts pulled and theoretically returned to the supply system. Without motors you have no hyd pumps which means you don't have a complete system to drop and lock the gear.

The power would have to have been both electrical and hydraulic. The gear only moves with hydraulic pressure, 3000 psi and a flow rate of at least 15-20 gpm.

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 Post subject: Re: P-38 on a stick
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:11 am 
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PbyCat-Guy wrote:
warbird1 wrote:
JDK wrote:
Randy Haskin wrote:
MD ANG is all ready sending you to OTS and UPT and you haven't even taken the AFOQT yet?

This post is also available in English. ;)


I believe PBYCat-Guy is just being an optimist and thinking positive that he has a good chance at success in realizing his dream.


I'm trying to be optimistic. If I feel like I will not be able to be selected for an A-10 pilot slot, then I have already failed. yikes, I have my foot in my mouth once agian.


That's great, and don't ever let anybody try to take your dreams away from you! However, there is more to life than flying an A-10. Frankly, ANY pilot slot you get, you should be thankful for. The Air Force will be really downsizing the number of pilots they send to SUPT to fly manned aircraft. UAV's and UCAV's will be making a dramatic surge in the coming years. A friend of mine, who is an Air Force Academy Liaison officer, got told in one of his briefings that within 4 years, some 40% of all officers going to Pilot Training (SUPT) will be flying unmanned aircraft. The days of graduating from Pilot Training and actually flying an airplane are dwindling down. A LOT of people will get their wings and end up flying a computer desk in some obscure location in the Nevada desert.

Just something to think about, but good luck on chasing your dreams!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:12 am 
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This happened according to the guys in the shop, many of them.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:03 am 
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Lets see pictures of the F4. Got any of it still on the pole ? How would they get the Hyd mule lines and AC power cables up to the aircraft. They wouldn't be long enough to reach the belly ?

Having done gear swings on the F-4, I know that you don't just plug a power cord and throw the handle ! There are no electric motors involved.

It is possible that they could have put 3000 lbs of air on the pnuematic system (if it was intact ) and blown the gear down with the emegency system, but they still need AC power on the plane.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:27 am 
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I don't know if I do RIck, I will have to check. It is on a main part of the base. I will see.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:55 am 
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Another opinion, related to some of the opinions expressed in this thread.

Quote:
By RICHARD CHIN
Fort Snelling, Minn.

Seeing a tank in a military museum is a little like looking at a dinosaur in a natural-history museum. Big and impressive to be sure, but also dead, cold and silent.

But what if the beast could roar into ground-shaking life?


The answer to that question can be found next to the Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport, at the Fort Snelling Military Museum. Situated on a patch of Army Reserve land, the museum, started in 1997, is run by about 100 civilian volunteers and financed largely by donations. It's one of the few armored warfare museums in the world dedicated not only to preserving historic military vehicles, but also to putting them in working order.

The fun starts when volunteers crank up the engines and drive the vintage tanks in parades, tear around dirt fields, and run over and crush junk cars in free public displays. "It makes it something people can relate to more than a big chunk of iron sitting on a concrete pad," said John Hutterer, president of the volunteer group.

Run under the auspices of the Army Reserve's 88th Regional Readiness Command and the Army's Center of Military History, the museum's collection of about 65 vehicles ranges from World War II to the first Gulf War. It includes Stuart, Sherman, Pershing, Patton and Sheridan tanks, armored personnel carriers, self-propelled howitzers, trucks, jeeps and amphibious vehicles.

The vehicles, all still the property of the Defense Department, were transferred by the Army to the museum from storage facilities housing obsolete hardware. A few somehow survived stints as targets on firing ranges. Some relics have been rescued from duty as metal monuments: sealed up old tanks parked in front of Veterans of Foreign Wars or American Legion halls. One jeep arrived in pristine condition, with less than 100 miles on the odometer. But other machines have combat wounds that need to be patched up, such as the Commando armored car that had a wheel blown off by a mine in Vietnam.

A 1942 Stuart tank arrived crusted with rust after spending some postwar years languishing in the Haitian military before being repatriated to the U.S. The Stuart became the pet project of one of the volunteers. He put it through a five-year restoration job, bringing it up to spotless showroom condition with original accessories and tools, including binoculars and grenades in the commander's compartment. "Never point a demilled weapons system at a visitor," says an instruction manual put in the tank.

"Everything is completely functional, including the gun itself," said Mr. Hutterer of the beauty queen with tracks. "But there hasn't been a round of tank ammunition at Fort Snelling for 60 years."

Many of the other vehicles in the museum look more like grease-stained workhorses or works in progress. "Still runs pretty good," said volunteer Ray Peterson of one of the museum's Patton tanks badly in need of a paint job.

The museum itself is kind of a scruffy place. It's basically a maintenance building with five shop bays, some canvas Quonset huts, a gravel display area and a dirt demonstration area.

The hardware includes such iconic pieces of American military mechanization as World War II Sherman tanks, an M3 halftrack and a DUKW "Duck" amphibious vehicle. There are also obscure, oddball or unsuccessful machines, such as the quirky six-wheel-drive Gama Goat, a transport vehicle that could twist in the middle. "A lot of people in the U.S. Army hated this thing," said volunteer Brian Lillquist, who used to drive bulldozers in the Army.

The museum also has a Sergeant York self-propelled antiaircraft gun, one of a few built before the weapon system was killed during the Reagan administration. "It was too complex for its time," Mr. Lillquist said. "It also had trouble hitting the target," Mr. Peterson added. All the same, volunteers were a little reluctant to turn it on, because they were concerned its radar might start tracking flights from the airport.

Not every piece of hardware is a weapon or a transport vehicle. The museum is home to the Army's last sawmill, a machine mounted on a semitrailer. It was used by a platoon of Army Reserve lumberjacks in northern Wisconsin. "It sat here a couple of weeks before we figured out what it was," Mr. Peterson said. "We have no idea how it works," said volunteer vice president Ron Corradin.

The volunteers include a lot of former servicemen, including some who have helped restore the same types of vehicles they drove in the military. There are also doctors, lawyers, engineers, mechanics and machinists. Some farmers from Iowa pitched in when the brake assembly on a Patton tank blew out. "They said it was no tougher than fixing a combine," Mr. Lillquist said.

One teenage volunteer went on to enlist in the Army and ended up in a tank unit. Museum volunteers say he's the Army's first recruit who knew how to drive a tank before he entered basic training.

To get antique weapons running, the volunteer mechanics have resorted to scrounging for old parts on eBay. Cadillac V-8 engines needed for the Stuart restoration were found in Kansas, where they had powered an irrigation system. A replacement fan belt for a Sherman tank came from an auto-parts store, said museum director Nick Goodwin.

The volunteers get a kick out of entertaining visitors by using propane to create a harmless belch of flame out of a tank gun. They said the Center of Military History used to frown on car-crushing demonstrations, concerned that a historic artifact might be harmed. But the volunteers argued that a 55-ton machine that was once NATO's main battle tank doesn't have anything to fear from a junked minivan.

"It doesn't hurt the tank. The tank doesn't even know it's going over it," Mr. Goodwin said.

Mr. Chin is a journalist living in St. Paul, Minn.

Printed in The Wall Street Journal, page B13

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB124389708296874171-lMyQjAxMDI5NDAzMjgwOTI3Wj.html


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:55 pm 
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This has spun way out of control!

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Last edited by the330thbg on Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:03 pm 
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While not a fan of taking flying warbirds and turning them into pole sitters you must remember this was done quite a number of years ago when P-38's were not as valuable as they are now. Having said that I wish they would take it down now and get it inside somewhere on the base and do some corrosion control on it. I would hate to see it wind up in the condition of the Corsair in Conn.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:05 pm 
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These are gone?
Image
Image
Image

These aircraft crashed and or destroyed?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:07 pm 
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330th-

It was a crude (and IMHO tasteless) way of pointing out three rare aircraft that crashed while in the hands of the CAF over the past two decades, each of which caused one or more fatalities. Others here can go into details, but each of them have been discussed previously.

Chris, I understand your point about crashed/destroyed aircraft being essentially lost for good, but you might be a little more sensitive/careful with your word choice, as there are people here who witnessed those crashes, and/or knew those lost folks personally.

kevin

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:12 pm 
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I did not know these were destroyed.

It was a question? No malice involved?

But in the original poster's defence.., his point being, that do we fly these around until they end up destroyed.. or preserve them in a museum where their life expectancy would be greatly increased.

Thanks

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Last edited by the330thbg on Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: ????
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:12 pm 
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Kevin,
He was really asking the question are these gone?????
These photos were posted 2 pages ago in this thread by mustangdriver who was trying
to make some kind of point I didn't really get.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:32 pm 
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Jack-

I understood 330th's point, and was just trying to answer his question. I figured that he just didn't know those airframe's sad histories. The "tasteless" part was aimed at Chris' original post of those photos, with the "dead airplanes" comment attached.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:35 pm 
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Sorry boys.., next time I will devote time for a quick 'google' search prior to posting. i just read the story on two of these beautiful birds and their crews. Very sad indeed.

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 Post subject: Paranormal WIX
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:48 pm 
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You know, it has come to my attention in this thread that there are things we are having a hard time putting our fingers on, things which may not exist in the planes we exist in, things which go bump in the night and make airplanes magical. I don't want to speculate about faeries, goblins, or gremlins, but with this ethereal, magical, hard-to-define nether world out there, we need a representative to chart our course. I nominate Mustang Driver for moderator of the new para-warbird board. He seems to be in touch with the other side, things most of us just can't get in touch with ourselves, so let's give him his own board, the paranormal warbird board so to say, and let him have at it. The spirits are waiting for somebody like him to manifest himself in their world, so let's give him a fighting chance in a world only he and a few other special people are in.

The Truth is Out There... Prozac not required...

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