Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:09 pm
I've mentioned this to David Carr before any engine runs took place, but in his defense, I suspect with some of the "old habits" of some of the pilots y'all have, they won't comply with this suggestion......
Right after start up of these engines, once oil pressure is confirmed, it is important to bring the engine to about 1200 rpm for a minimum of 15 seconds. This rpm allows the scavenge pumps to become "primed" and do their jobs corrrectly. The engine can be brought back to idle after that, but I typically don't bring them below 1,000 rpm, since cold engines tend to "load up" easily. Old timers don't typically care for this approach, as they are always worried about too much oil pressure through the system. If we're talking about freezin' cold oil, then there may be an issue, but typically, the oil bypass valve in the cooler is open when the temps are cool and the 15 seconds of higher than normal pressure don't hurt a thing.
It's all a matter of what your preferences are, I reckon. Personally, I don't like it when these engines fill themselves up with oil that they cannot scavenge out. It makes a huge mess and can cause substantial damage...particularly if you have lower cylinders who's rings aren't seated yet and end up hydraulic locking themselves. Granted, that is the worse case scenario, but that's what we're trying to prevent...right?
Just my $.02 worth. Flame suit on...blast away.
Gary
Right after start up of these engines, once oil pressure is confirmed, it is important to bring the engine to about 1200 rpm for a minimum of 15 seconds. This rpm allows the scavenge pumps to become "primed" and do their jobs corrrectly. The engine can be brought back to idle after that, but I typically don't bring them below 1,000 rpm, since cold engines tend to "load up" easily. Old timers don't typically care for this approach, as they are always worried about too much oil pressure through the system. If we're talking about freezin' cold oil, then there may be an issue, but typically, the oil bypass valve in the cooler is open when the temps are cool and the 15 seconds of higher than normal pressure don't hurt a thing.
It's all a matter of what your preferences are, I reckon. Personally, I don't like it when these engines fill themselves up with oil that they cannot scavenge out. It makes a huge mess and can cause substantial damage...particularly if you have lower cylinders who's rings aren't seated yet and end up hydraulic locking themselves. Granted, that is the worse case scenario, but that's what we're trying to prevent...right?
Just my $.02 worth. Flame suit on...blast away.
Gary
Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:28 pm
Gary...Actually that is what David (Walt and Ken) did.
They were on their way to doing the 1200 RPM to prime the pump but the Ground Marshall was giving them the heavy duty SHUT IT DOWN cut signal so they complied and talked it through and resumed.
The reasoning being that there might have been something ELSE wrong that the GM could see and they couldn't.
They restarted it, ran it up and it was hunky dory--- Now is my turn to put on my flame suit as all the rest of the WIXperts come out of the wood work and tell us what we wuz doin' wuz ALL WRONG and we might as well park it outside a gas station and be done with it...
They were on their way to doing the 1200 RPM to prime the pump but the Ground Marshall was giving them the heavy duty SHUT IT DOWN cut signal so they complied and talked it through and resumed.
The reasoning being that there might have been something ELSE wrong that the GM could see and they couldn't.
They restarted it, ran it up and it was hunky dory--- Now is my turn to put on my flame suit as all the rest of the WIXperts come out of the wood work and tell us what we wuz doin' wuz ALL WRONG and we might as well park it outside a gas station and be done with it...
Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:43 pm
Well done guys, great job. Good to see her running under her own steam again! 
P.s. For what its worth, I always run up at 1200 rpm... oops couldnt help it!
P.s. For what its worth, I always run up at 1200 rpm... oops couldnt help it!
Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:24 pm
Okay Spanner. Sorry I mis-spoke.
Gary
Gary
Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:32 pm
Gary... come to work for us!!!! 
we luv ya!
I will review and try and implement the 1200 RPM run up on cranking as part of our SOPs for start-ups on all engines. I listened to the video again and think Davy might have been doing that just on the engine that made the burp.
PS bring a 55 gal drum of mosquito repellant... Lawdy they are fierce at night at the Hangar!
we luv ya!
I will review and try and implement the 1200 RPM run up on cranking as part of our SOPs for start-ups on all engines. I listened to the video again and think Davy might have been doing that just on the engine that made the burp.
PS bring a 55 gal drum of mosquito repellant... Lawdy they are fierce at night at the Hangar!
Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:12 pm
It is really great to see the progress that is being made to bring TR back where she belongs. Keep up the good work and thanks for taking time to post the progress here on WIX.
Tim
Tim
Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:37 pm
SPANNERmkV wrote:Gary... come to work for us!!!!
Thanks, but not likely to happen. It's a shame, but due to multiple bridge burnings, I will no longer be spending any time with CAF aircraft. Y'all keep up the good work though.
Gary
Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:10 pm
Gary, I'm sure you were on the right side of the bridge before you burned it!
A principled man never compromises on his principles...
I wish you the best.
Now to Raiders...when I was a kid many moons ago, Raiders was my favorite airplane. My parents worked the px every year at the Harlingen airsho, and the volunteers typically were offered rides during the course of the weekend. I helped set up and tear down, but the rest of the day I was where the planes were. One day my Mom was offered a ride in the B-17. She was scared to death of flying, and said so. That evening when she told me the story I was so disappointed. She could have said "no thanks, but I have a son that would love..." Anyway, she didn't say that and I didn't get a ride. I think had I gotten that ride I would have continued on to the Air Force Academy, developed a non fattening ice cream that cured the swine flu and machined B-17 wing attach fittings in my spare time. Instead I'm stuck building chemical plants...
That's how I tell the story to my mom anyway.
Great job guys and I admire your hard work. Hope I can buy one of the first rides when you're done.
Chunks
A principled man never compromises on his principles...
I wish you the best.
Now to Raiders...when I was a kid many moons ago, Raiders was my favorite airplane. My parents worked the px every year at the Harlingen airsho, and the volunteers typically were offered rides during the course of the weekend. I helped set up and tear down, but the rest of the day I was where the planes were. One day my Mom was offered a ride in the B-17. She was scared to death of flying, and said so. That evening when she told me the story I was so disappointed. She could have said "no thanks, but I have a son that would love..." Anyway, she didn't say that and I didn't get a ride. I think had I gotten that ride I would have continued on to the Air Force Academy, developed a non fattening ice cream that cured the swine flu and machined B-17 wing attach fittings in my spare time. Instead I'm stuck building chemical plants...
That's how I tell the story to my mom anyway.
Great job guys and I admire your hard work. Hope I can buy one of the first rides when you're done.
Chunks
Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:49 am
Chunks wrote:Gary, I'm sure you were on the right side of the bridge before you burned it!
A principled man never compromises on his principles...
I wish you the best.
Now to Raiders...when I was a kid many moons ago, Raiders was my favorite airplane. My parents worked the px every year at the Harlingen airsho, and the volunteers typically were offered rides during the course of the weekend. I helped set up and tear down, but the rest of the day I was where the planes were. One day my Mom was offered a ride in the B-17. She was scared to death of flying, and said so. That evening when she told me the story I was so disappointed. She could have said "no thanks, but I have a son that would love..." Anyway, she didn't say that and I didn't get a ride. I think had I gotten that ride I would have continued on to the Air Force Academy, developed a non fattening ice cream that cured the swine flu and machined B-17 wing attach fittings in my spare time. Instead I'm stuck building chemical plants...
That's how I tell the story to my mom anyway.
Great job guys and I admire your hard work. Hope I can buy one of the first rides when you're done.
Chunks
Excellent story, it brought a smile to my face.
Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:59 am
I am sorry to hear that the CAF is organization non-grata.
Likewise I have individuals who I have crossed swords with and would rather have nothing to do with. But my choice is to finish the plane, go fly the N3N-3, the Stinson and work my way and let the bungholes be darned!
Not that I will EVER consider Gary to be anything but a friend... But I think it was Rabin who said, "You make Peace with your enemies... not your friends."
But...then again... Rabin got hosed by somebody nominally on his side so like "they" say... It's ALWAYS SOMETHING!
GREAT STORY Chunks!
I wish your Mom had somehow gotten you on the plane.
work beckons... AND Lucky me... I get to dodge skeeters tonight and continue scrubbing out the Bomb-Bay.
SPANNER
Likewise I have individuals who I have crossed swords with and would rather have nothing to do with. But my choice is to finish the plane, go fly the N3N-3, the Stinson and work my way and let the bungholes be darned!
Not that I will EVER consider Gary to be anything but a friend... But I think it was Rabin who said, "You make Peace with your enemies... not your friends."
But...then again... Rabin got hosed by somebody nominally on his side so like "they" say... It's ALWAYS SOMETHING!
GREAT STORY Chunks!
I wish your Mom had somehow gotten you on the plane.
work beckons... AND Lucky me... I get to dodge skeeters tonight and continue scrubbing out the Bomb-Bay.
SPANNER
Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:53 am
Response has been awesome to the first version of the Slow Taxi Test.
The other videographer came through with EVEN BETTER footage to work with so here is Version 2.0 of the taxi test.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1oZN7GEAUg
There will come a time when I run out of superlatives to describe the work the Gulf Coast Wing has put into this.
I guess I should save some for late this Summer when, Good LORD willing we will go aviating.
SPANNER
The other videographer came through with EVEN BETTER footage to work with so here is Version 2.0 of the taxi test.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1oZN7GEAUg
There will come a time when I run out of superlatives to describe the work the Gulf Coast Wing has put into this.
I guess I should save some for late this Summer when, Good LORD willing we will go aviating.
SPANNER
Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:00 pm
retroaviation wrote:It's a shame, but due to multiple bridge burnings, I will no longer be spending any time with CAF aircraft.
Good God Almighty, is the CAF bound and determined to commit suicide?
Lemme splain: I'm an unskilled volunteer type since the 70's. I love the CAF, and always will, for fairly starting the warbird movement as we know it today, and for doing what it does on a continuing basis. But they sure have a nasty tendency to run good people off, and foster bad attitudes on those who remain, and that I detest. I got fairly good 'n' skeptical after a while of the SOS, but then both Spanner and Gary came along and turned my thinking around. It was like a miracle happened.
But now this? How CAN the CAF let Gary go? From everything I've seen he runs around with an eye that's not only rare, but leaves the various crews eager to see how much more they can discover for themselves, rather than feel abused by some puffed-up HQ type.
Edit: I just watched the vid. Man, I've seen 'Raiders as a hunk o' junk at Hobby before, sure is GREAT to see the beast rockin' and ROLLING!!
Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:53 pm
Pogo wrote:
But now this? How CAN the CAF let Gary go? From everything I've seen he runs around with an eye that's not only rare, but leaves the various crews eager to see how much more they can discover for themselves, rather than feel abused by some puffed-up HQ type.
Thank you for the kind words, but I do need to make sure everyone knows that it was ME that made the decision to leave the CAF. They didn't "uninvite" me. However, with that being said, there have been some accusations and other various things pop up to give me a bad attitude towards the organization. There is no doubt they have some great folks and are on the right track to making things better than ever, but at least for now, they're on my "sh*t list."
No biggie. They'll do quite well without me. It always impresses me on just how hard some of the volunteers for that organization work. And between the Texas Raiders and Yellow Rose group, among others, it makes me proud to have been able to work with those folks.
Sorry to hijack the thread, Spanner. I just needed to make sure I cleared that up.
Gary
Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:17 am
Gary,
My thread is your thread!
Glad to hear we are in company with YELLOW ROSE.
I only took on my job with GCW in order to make things mo better.
You helped immeasurably with that and David and I only wish you were here to see us through the finish line. (Or drag us over it kicking and sceaming, however the case may be.)
All that fun stuff being said...
Hijacking the thread back to B17 work.
I was asking the MO why he wanted to put the wing leading edge on the wing extension on the ground.
His answer, "I'd rather fit it on the ground than 10 feet off the ground."
After listening to hours of happy tapping, oh mercy mes and other exclamations of joyful tidings... the leading edge is still on the floor in front of the wing extension. It seems there is a little tweeking and straightening to be done before it will "Pop right on."
Stay tuned, as we say in the band.
SPANNER
My thread is your thread!
Glad to hear we are in company with YELLOW ROSE.
I only took on my job with GCW in order to make things mo better.
You helped immeasurably with that and David and I only wish you were here to see us through the finish line. (Or drag us over it kicking and sceaming, however the case may be.)
All that fun stuff being said...
Hijacking the thread back to B17 work.
I was asking the MO why he wanted to put the wing leading edge on the wing extension on the ground.
His answer, "I'd rather fit it on the ground than 10 feet off the ground."
After listening to hours of happy tapping, oh mercy mes and other exclamations of joyful tidings... the leading edge is still on the floor in front of the wing extension. It seems there is a little tweeking and straightening to be done before it will "Pop right on."
Stay tuned, as we say in the band.
SPANNER
Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:49 pm
OK Warbird afficionados...
Here is the Pilot's Windscreen freshly installed. The Co-pilot's was in by quitting time Saturday 13th of June as well...
The Right Wing extension had some inter-granular corrosion in the corrugated panelling. David and Terry did a bang 'em up job. They had to start out with one type of ALUMINIUM in order to get it formed and then off to the heat treaters to get it transformed into ALUMINUM...
Clecos on the Right Wing extensions
In my copious spare time I decided for some odd reason to paint the bomb-bay in primer
Here is the Pilot's Windscreen freshly installed. The Co-pilot's was in by quitting time Saturday 13th of June as well...
The Right Wing extension had some inter-granular corrosion in the corrugated panelling. David and Terry did a bang 'em up job. They had to start out with one type of ALUMINIUM in order to get it formed and then off to the heat treaters to get it transformed into ALUMINUM...
Clecos on the Right Wing extensions
In my copious spare time I decided for some odd reason to paint the bomb-bay in primer