X FAH 608
Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:30 pm
Via FAH 619;
"This is how the X FAH 608 Buno 124493 looked inside the Pete Thelen hangar at Ft. Lauderdale, Fla in June 1987. On the left is the burned out fuselage of XFAH 604 Buno 122179 that crashed near Houston ,TX c. 1984."
"This is how the X FAH 608 Buno 124493 looked inside the Pete Thelen hangar at Ft. Lauderdale, Fla in June 1987. On the left is the burned out fuselage of XFAH 604 Buno 122179 that crashed near Houston ,TX c. 1984."
Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:50 am
darn!!!!!Someone's blown my cover 
The pics from Jaldo were taken very early this year(I think) and the tail-planes have been fitted since as well as paint on the wing tips,we have the engine at Ezells being built up as a QEC so check his website.Still a fair way to go with the fuel cell & plumbing and all the inst & elec stuff to go plus final rig of controls,all hydraulic s are operational,the rudder fitted makes the aircraft look great with the colours and is very authentic,cheers,Pete
The pics from Jaldo were taken very early this year(I think) and the tail-planes have been fitted since as well as paint on the wing tips,we have the engine at Ezells being built up as a QEC so check his website.Still a fair way to go with the fuel cell & plumbing and all the inst & elec stuff to go plus final rig of controls,all hydraulic s are operational,the rudder fitted makes the aircraft look great with the colours and is very authentic,cheers,Pete
Starting to make sense
Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:24 pm
I think that Lone Eagle and and FAH 619 probably have correct information. My father says that he and John noticed how mixed up things were in the Hollywood Wings warehouse. John Mullen made the trip out to CA to pick up the pieces and he may have been given or taken parts from different BU Corsairs. I know we did have a significant pile of -4 stuff that was mostly traded off for -5 parts. My father says it's entirely possible that we had some cowling sections for FAH 608 but not the rest of the plane. I did find this 3M microfilm cartridge that I had intended to get copied for Jim Read when he owned BU123168. I lost it for a while but found it when I came across the 35mm slides of our old Corsair. I wonder if I can have it transfered to a digital media and not just printed out as hard copies? Nice to see a -5 restored back to it's Honduran colors. It's about time!
Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:45 pm
Any chance you have access to other photos of the rear fuselage section before it was stripped? The FAH number was also carried on the extreme tail just under the horizontal stabilizer. That would at least tell us the identity of the aft section of the plane.
The 'Hollywood Wings' Corsairs were all disassembled into their major components and arranged in outdoor storage on a grassy side lot at the Long Beach Airport. The two men running the operation also had some warehouse space where they kept the smaller parts like cowlings, etc, as well the huge cache of spare parts also recovered from Honduras.
Another interested buyer who visited the site took some notes describing each major component still present during his visit, and 124493 was one of them. It's hard to judge from the single photo you have showing the center section, but what I can see of the plane does match his notes below...
Of the planes present at the site, 124493 was the only one who's bomb rack and strut configuration matched this description, thus I believe the center section John Mullen & your father recovered was in fact BuNo.124493. That would mean that the various components and identities must have gotten juggled a bit during restoration in Florida.
*note - This is complete presumption on my part, but looking through the lens of a mid-1980's mindset, the chain of logic might have gone something like this...
The fact that BuNo.122179 was the only airframe previously registered and flying could be the reason it's identity was used - possibly to minimize the paperwork and expedite the registration process for airworthy operation. Following that, the identity of BuNo.124493 might have proved helpful in smoothing the export process of the previously unidentified but externally complete airframe (123168) to New Zealand. That would leave the dead and burnt (at the time) remains of the real BuNo.122179 to be thrown into the dust bin with the otherwise undocumented and unsupported identity of BuNo.123168. That would be my best working theory on the matter anyway, all of which would need to be backed up with some further research.
Keep in mind that twenty plus years ago, bouncing around components and identities or partially dismantled non-flying aircraft was not seen as quite the insidious an act as most would consider it to be today. Most folks were simply looking to "keep 'em flying" back then, by whatever means...though it does wreak havoc on the bean counters like me.
The 'Hollywood Wings' Corsairs were all disassembled into their major components and arranged in outdoor storage on a grassy side lot at the Long Beach Airport. The two men running the operation also had some warehouse space where they kept the smaller parts like cowlings, etc, as well the huge cache of spare parts also recovered from Honduras.
Another interested buyer who visited the site took some notes describing each major component still present during his visit, and 124493 was one of them. It's hard to judge from the single photo you have showing the center section, but what I can see of the plane does match his notes below...
-5 Tail #608 (124493)
LH Door - missing
RH Door - strike
Tail wheel & strut missing
RH avionics door missing
Center Section F4U-5N #608 (124493)
Cockpit Fair No Rudder Pedals
No Windshield & Cowl
RH Fold OK, LH upper Air Duct OK
No Oil Coolers
LH Air Duct / Intercooler Rib Dam
LH Fold Minor Skin
RH Bomb Rack Bare
RH Strut Bare
No LH strut
Of the planes present at the site, 124493 was the only one who's bomb rack and strut configuration matched this description, thus I believe the center section John Mullen & your father recovered was in fact BuNo.124493. That would mean that the various components and identities must have gotten juggled a bit during restoration in Florida.
*note - This is complete presumption on my part, but looking through the lens of a mid-1980's mindset, the chain of logic might have gone something like this...
The fact that BuNo.122179 was the only airframe previously registered and flying could be the reason it's identity was used - possibly to minimize the paperwork and expedite the registration process for airworthy operation. Following that, the identity of BuNo.124493 might have proved helpful in smoothing the export process of the previously unidentified but externally complete airframe (123168) to New Zealand. That would leave the dead and burnt (at the time) remains of the real BuNo.122179 to be thrown into the dust bin with the otherwise undocumented and unsupported identity of BuNo.123168. That would be my best working theory on the matter anyway, all of which would need to be backed up with some further research.
Keep in mind that twenty plus years ago, bouncing around components and identities or partially dismantled non-flying aircraft was not seen as quite the insidious an act as most would consider it to be today. Most folks were simply looking to "keep 'em flying" back then, by whatever means...though it does wreak havoc on the bean counters like me.
FAH 603 Buno 123168
Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:15 pm
Via FAH 619 (Seagull);
"Al;
What is the source of your Buno 123168? What kind of papers did your father get from Hollywood wings?"
Thanks,
"Al;
What is the source of your Buno 123168? What kind of papers did your father get from Hollywood wings?"
Thanks,
F4U-5NL
Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:03 am
Lone Eagle,
Well I have to admit that at this point, all I really know for sure is that the airplane that Pete Thelen sold to Doug Arnold and eventually came back to the U.S. with Jim Read is "the airplane" that was assembled primarily from the group of parts that my father and John Mullen purchased from Hollywood Wings in 78'/79'. There also seems to be a considerable amount of evidence to support the theory that the parts we purchased came from Honduras. Beyond that, I'm not willing to say much more at this time owing to the fact that some of the things I've posted on this thread in the last week were probably wrong.
When I find the rest of the photos and the files from both my father and John Mullen, I'll post more info. I'm really curious about the history of the plane. At this point, it's seems obvious that it is more of a composite of several airframes. At this point, I would not be at all surprised to find out that the center section and tail cone are not from the same plane. Thanks to all for the help. I doubt the current owners have much use for this information but I'm enjoying the search for information.
Well I have to admit that at this point, all I really know for sure is that the airplane that Pete Thelen sold to Doug Arnold and eventually came back to the U.S. with Jim Read is "the airplane" that was assembled primarily from the group of parts that my father and John Mullen purchased from Hollywood Wings in 78'/79'. There also seems to be a considerable amount of evidence to support the theory that the parts we purchased came from Honduras. Beyond that, I'm not willing to say much more at this time owing to the fact that some of the things I've posted on this thread in the last week were probably wrong.
When I find the rest of the photos and the files from both my father and John Mullen, I'll post more info. I'm really curious about the history of the plane. At this point, it's seems obvious that it is more of a composite of several airframes. At this point, I would not be at all surprised to find out that the center section and tail cone are not from the same plane. Thanks to all for the help. I doubt the current owners have much use for this information but I'm enjoying the search for information.
FAH 603
Sat Jun 20, 2009 6:59 pm
Al;
In reply to your comment, Seagull 619 forwards the following info;
"We look fwd to see all other pictures of your Ctr & aft fuselages to establish a more positive ID of the fuselage that your dad bought. For instance:
1. If you had the original aft section of the fuselage it should had read underneath the H/stab "603" on the R/side only. This panel was missing as the picture shows on FAH 603 on the L/side c. 1979.
2.Also both brake fairing assy should have some Navy markings stenciled as "08" or "3". The wings of this particular aircraft also had as I indicated before the markings "NP 8".
3. We look fwd for any photos that you may have of the cockpit of the center section that came with this aircraft.
p.s Circa Feb 1967 FAH 603 had a forced landing at Toncontin airport. The pilot Cpt Fernando Soto Enriquez was unable to bring one gear dwn. Some scrapping and damage should also be visible underneath your fuselage. The pilot walked away from the accident but FAH 603 was W/O.
If you have more pics of the aircraft as you received at home that would also be very helpful for ID purposes. "
In reply to your comment, Seagull 619 forwards the following info;
"We look fwd to see all other pictures of your Ctr & aft fuselages to establish a more positive ID of the fuselage that your dad bought. For instance:
1. If you had the original aft section of the fuselage it should had read underneath the H/stab "603" on the R/side only. This panel was missing as the picture shows on FAH 603 on the L/side c. 1979.
2.Also both brake fairing assy should have some Navy markings stenciled as "08" or "3". The wings of this particular aircraft also had as I indicated before the markings "NP 8".
3. We look fwd for any photos that you may have of the cockpit of the center section that came with this aircraft.
p.s Circa Feb 1967 FAH 603 had a forced landing at Toncontin airport. The pilot Cpt Fernando Soto Enriquez was unable to bring one gear dwn. Some scrapping and damage should also be visible underneath your fuselage. The pilot walked away from the accident but FAH 603 was W/O.
If you have more pics of the aircraft as you received at home that would also be very helpful for ID purposes. "
F4U-5N flap
Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:22 am
Well I did not find any more photos yet but I did find that flap. It's larger than I remember, that's for sure. The data plate on the flap is mostly covered with old Blue paint but what I could read said "F4U-5N" and DWG No or Part Number "??38776-L" so I guess it's a Left flap? I'll clean it up on Sunday and try to get some more info off the data plate.
Flap detail
Sun Jun 21, 2009 7:33 pm
The flap data plate yielded a P/N and a S/N. It also shows two "608" markings that are done in a Red grease pen or something similar. I assume this was done in Honduras. I guess all this means is that this flap probably came from ex FAH-608 like the parts of the engine cowling.
Negative color image.
One hit with some fine cut wax. I cleaned the side opposite the Red grease pen numbers.
Ok, Rob. What can you do with a flap S/N?
Negative color image.
One hit with some fine cut wax. I cleaned the side opposite the Red grease pen numbers.
Ok, Rob. What can you do with a flap S/N?
F4U-5NL Buno 124692.
Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:24 pm
Via FAH 619;
Photo of F4U-5NL Buno 124692, how it looked at Jax, Fla c. 1986. With aft fuselage showing VC-3 markings and the R/S cockpit area reading "LT. JG. Row" or Roe.
Photo of F4U-5NL Buno 124692, how it looked at Jax, Fla c. 1986. With aft fuselage showing VC-3 markings and the R/S cockpit area reading "LT. JG. Row" or Roe.
Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:11 pm
I can't do much with the flap serial numbers since they don't directly corespond with the planes Bureau Number. However, I will venture to guess that the grease pencil markings were put there by Hollywood Wings during the disassembly of the non-airworthy aircraft for the train ride back north to Long Beach. Very cool that you still have the flap! 
-5 Flap
Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:28 pm
Rob,
My father says that most of the paperwork for the plane was kept by John Mullen so I'll see what I can come up with after I talk with his son. If the records were kept at Creve Coeur, they may have been lost in the Great Flood of 1993. With any luck, John had that stuff stored at his house but since he's been gone for nearly four years. it's hard to say what I will find.
I'm really starting to think that the plane not only had a BU# change after it left St. Louis but may have arrived here in the first place as a composite fuselage. Maybe the BU# that my father and John used to register the N# with the FAA was wrong to begin with? Clearly, I'll need to find more information so that you guys can pin it down.
The flap is certainly less than airworthy but it could be repaired. I'd like to see it wind up with somebody who could use it on a Honduran Corsair restoration. I'm open to suggestions if any of you guys can point me in the direction of somebody who needs it. Thanks,
My father says that most of the paperwork for the plane was kept by John Mullen so I'll see what I can come up with after I talk with his son. If the records were kept at Creve Coeur, they may have been lost in the Great Flood of 1993. With any luck, John had that stuff stored at his house but since he's been gone for nearly four years. it's hard to say what I will find.
I'm really starting to think that the plane not only had a BU# change after it left St. Louis but may have arrived here in the first place as a composite fuselage. Maybe the BU# that my father and John used to register the N# with the FAA was wrong to begin with? Clearly, I'll need to find more information so that you guys can pin it down.
The flap is certainly less than airworthy but it could be repaired. I'd like to see it wind up with somebody who could use it on a Honduran Corsair restoration. I'm open to suggestions if any of you guys can point me in the direction of somebody who needs it. Thanks,
F4U-5NL
Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:29 pm
Via FAH 619;
Al;
"Actually, those S/Ns that are stamped in the mod plates do correlate to the Buno of the aircraft.
1. The Argentinian F4U-5s listed a number called "CVA" which possibly means Chance Vought Airframe in their inventory of F4U-5, F4U-5N & F4U-5NL aircraft as follows:
1. F4U-5NL Buno 124705 listed a "CVA" number as "549".
F4U-5NL Buno 124707 listed a "CVA" number as "551"
2. The Honduras AF FAH 609 F4U-5NL shows also an identical ID mod plate in the L/H of the cockpit with the s/n A21-559 which we found correlates to its Buno 124715.
3. Your S/N A7-631 possibly correlates to an early model F4U-5.
Al;
"Actually, those S/Ns that are stamped in the mod plates do correlate to the Buno of the aircraft.
1. The Argentinian F4U-5s listed a number called "CVA" which possibly means Chance Vought Airframe in their inventory of F4U-5, F4U-5N & F4U-5NL aircraft as follows:
1. F4U-5NL Buno 124705 listed a "CVA" number as "549".
F4U-5NL Buno 124707 listed a "CVA" number as "551"
2. The Honduras AF FAH 609 F4U-5NL shows also an identical ID mod plate in the L/H of the cockpit with the s/n A21-559 which we found correlates to its Buno 124715.
3. Your S/N A7-631 possibly correlates to an early model F4U-5.
Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:32 am
Hi Al,had to laugh,we have just finished painting all the flaps for FAH 608,and then you go & post a pic of an original off the aircraft!!! I don't think all your investigation of Bu No's & Ser no's is in vain,I have found it very interesting and had not thought about the previous history too much as the rear fuse has the ser no on a data plate in side the rear fuse access door.I guess with most aircraft that have production breaks there is the chance of subsections being mixed (&WIXED )I don't have the ok to post pics at this stage but will ask as it looks fantastic with the FAH scheme,best regards,Pete Bradley
I don't think all your investigation of Bu No's & Ser no's is in vain,I have found it very interesting and had not thought about the previous history too much as the rear fuse has the ser no on a data plate in side the rear fuse access door.I guess with most aircraft that have production breaks there is the chance of subsections being mixed (&WIXED )I don't have the ok to post pics at this stage but will ask as it looks fantastic with the FAH scheme,best regards,Pete Bradley
Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:43 am
FAH-619 is actually correct. I had the three digit numbers for the F4U-7's but none for the F4U-5's. Using the number correlations noted by FAH-619, the flap you have would have belonged to F4U-5NL BuNo.124678. There was a lot of swapping of lesser components in the field so this would not have been uncommon. I'll try to crunch more numbers tomorrow night and see if I missed anything obvious.