TBD-1 BuNo 1515... this will make you cry

lmritger · **Posted:** Tue May 10, 2005 10:38 pm

http://www.tighar.org/Projects/Devastat ... rican2.htm

I'd like to give a single finger salute to the Naval Hysterical Center for allowing this amazing piece of history to simply ROT on the ocean floor.

Thanks, y'all. No, really... thanks for turning your back on the one aircraft type most emblematic of good ol' Yankee guts and bravery, the TBD Devastator. And thanks also for letting this VT-5 veteran disintegrate into dust... that plane flew from the deck that my grandfather helped lay as an apprentice at Newport News.

Col. Rohr, Owen, HELLDIVERS, and you other guys that have mentioned a "summit" in the past... I haven't a clue as to what's happening with it, and am not sure I want to know since I have no need for NIS nosing about in my neighborhood, but I *DO* wish you every bit of success in dealing with these myopic individuals, since we obviously can't entrust our naval aeronautical history to their tender mercies.

Lynn

tom d. friedman · **Posted:** Wed May 11, 2005 9:26 am

i'll keep my tighar opinions private, as i know there are members on the wix site as well, but bottom line that devastator is in remarkable condition for all the salt water immersion over the last 60 years, it's good condition is especially amazing since the type had an air frame that was lighter than most. i know she'd turn to dust as soon as she hit air, & probably not practical to restore her for static display anymore, :idea:

but they should still salvage her & put her in a big salt water aquarium as she lies now and make it a most unusual ww 2 diorama for aviation historians to enjoy, after all she' practically 1 of a kind minus the deep wreck. was this the 1 champlin was gunning for?? regards, tom

TimAPNY · **Posted:** Wed May 11, 2005 9:36 am

No, the one off the Florida coast is the one Champlin was after. That one I hear is in much poorer shapre.

Could you not make it a fresh water tank and slowely defuse the salt out of the a/c? Isn't that what they did to the Huntley(sp?).

tom d. friedman · **Posted:** Wed May 11, 2005 9:44 am

i don't know, but interesting point!!

RickH · **Posted:** Wed May 11, 2005 1:18 pm

The Hunley is iron. It's fairly thick too. It was built using the same process used to build steam boilers.

marine air · **Posted:** Wed May 11, 2005 6:03 pm

Tim,
Yeah I thought the same thing . I went to Charleston a few years ago and the Confederate submarine had just been pulled up and I remember they immediately put it in a tank of fresh water. At Fort Sumter, they had a couple of tanks and they had cannons in them that had been retrieved from the sea.
They said that the process involved putting the artifacts in cold fresh water and leaching the alkalinity from the metal. They had a term, don't remember, electrolysis or electrophoresis, or (?) that stops and then reverses the chemical changes from the salt water. The tanks were hooked up to a power source, and the water has to be changed periodically and they said it would takes years on the CSS Hunley. That being said, I think a TBD Devastator would certainly be worth the expense.
Even if it only halted all corrosion and pulled the salts from the rivet lines, etc. that Devastator could definitely be a nice static display!!!

O.P. · **Posted:** Wed May 11, 2005 6:34 pm

I think they are doing the same leaching process with the Liberty Belle.(Space ship, not B-17)

tom d. friedman · **Posted:** Thu May 12, 2005 12:28 am

hope gus grissom gets vindicated!!

Digger · **Posted:** Thu May 12, 2005 1:34 am

Hi Guys,

could some one explain the following to me.

What is the differences between the SBD and the TBD and I don't mean the obvious superficial ones as the names etc, but technically speaking and

Which one was in service first or did they serve the war together and finally

Which type was used during the Battle of the Coral Sea?

thanks

Digger

HarvardIV · **Joined:** Mon Oct 04, 2004 9:08 pm **Posts:** 1437

Digger:

The TBD and SBD both were used in the Coral Sea Battle. There is no similarity whatsoever between the two. They were used together. I TBD entered service in 1937.

Digger · **Posted:** Thu May 12, 2005 1:59 am

Ok thanks for that.

so would both have operated from the same carrier? or did the US carriers split their TBD and SBD squadrons between the various carrier groups? For example, did the Lexington have both or just one type?

Which type is rarer, the TBD or the SBD.

I need a accelerated learning course on these types!

cheers

Digger

JohnH · **Posted:** Thu May 12, 2005 4:17 am

tom d. friedman wrote:

hope gus grissom gets vindicated!!

Grissom has already been vindictated by Deke Slayton in his book. Go to the library or buy the book it's a good read. Grissom was not some sort of half witted screw up (as Slayton's book uses words to that effect) and the blowing of the hatch was not his fault. I'm sure Grissom's fellow surviving astronauts will vouch for him too. Tighar are a joke, a total bunch of scam artists who will fool the media just for the publicity. Oh yeah they found parts of Earhart's airplane, yeah right.

John

O.P. · **Posted:** Thu May 12, 2005 4:20 am

tom d. friedman wrote:

hope gus grissom gets vindicated!!

He is totally vindicated. I watched a documentary, I don't remember the details, but it centered around hand injuries involved with activating the hatch. He didn't have it. Every other astronaut did, at least in training. I might have it backwards, but his buds said conclusively that he didn't have nothing to do with the hatch going the way it did. He got a very bad rap. It's a bummer that they didn't clear it while he was alive, they all knew the deal then also. Gus Grissom was a kickass pilot/astronaut and a real hero in my book.

On the TIGAR thing. I got a bud, a true believer in the whole AE thing. He went on the trip to Nikimoro (I think thats right, east bummed f**ked pacific for everyone else). He said these cats only wanted to search a few square yards on surf level sand. I think he said that they had been there before and had searched the square yard of sand next to it. When he said that doesn't make any sense, he was directed to keep on searching his square yard of surf level sand. While they were there, they basically searched nothing. He was disillusioned/pissed afterwords. He went a looking and found out that the big dude of that org is pulling down very, very good dough every year running TIGAR and that his girlfriend is also. His theory is that if TIGAR never finds AE, IE, searching surf sand on every expedition, TIGAR and its big shot is fat city money wise. Better than a job and a pacific adventure on other folks dime every now and again.

I believe my friend.

I think any science/archaeology/opinions offered by this org, is probably just a front for a fancy high class club med (club pac) to generate cash for its founders. I might agree, or disagree with their recomendations, but I certainly disagree with their tactics.

If I'm wrong, please TIGAR dudes, refute me.

airnutz · **Posted:** Thu May 12, 2005 6:08 am

D*mn right Orv! I saw the same documentary..Discovery or History Chan.
I remember the bruises being noted. The pressure required to actuate the
hatch-blow was not present and the resulting injuries. Around the same time Liberty Belle was raised ...the old BS speculations came up...was that Tighar at the center of that?

Anywho..I had just recently returned to the Galv Bay homeland and was
ranging about meeting people and rediscovering the area. Found myself
at a classic dive called the "Poopdeck" .. a cozy spot above Seawall Blvd
across the street from the Gulf of Mexico face-into a perpetual ocean
breeze. I'm hangin out hammerin Corona's when a red Dodge Viper
comes growling into the parking lot below the deck.

The driver gets himself a beer ands sits down nearby. I strike-up a chat with him..apparently he's having "lady problems back home", so I begin discussing the Viper. One thing leads to another and one of us
mentions the SCCA. A racing story here..and there and we discover that
we were on the track at the same time in the late 80's at TWS. I was a
rookie crewchief and driverschool student..he was a Showroom
Stock driver. He shows me his Championship ring..and I realise I'm talk-
ing to Scott Grissom!!!! Whoa dude..coulda knocked me over with a
feather!!

We chat a bit about cars..the track..aircraft,..turns out he's a commercial
pilot. "Airliners!", I says .."Nope", he says...."No cattle for me, cargo is
much easier to deal with!"

Finally, I gotta complement him on his dad Gus..I mean one of the original
"We Seven"...D*AMN!! But he was a bit upset about the (then) recent
resurrgence of doubt from the muckrakers. I related to him about how
I'd seen the other info which corroborated Gus's story and that was how
most people who had any idea of the technology viewed his dads story.
Scott was appreciative of that, and hoped that would continue to be so.

It was especially tragic, that despite the doubts certain folks had about
Gus Grissoms actions..NASA still modified the hatches on Apollo
in order to prevent the possibility of what he experienced that day. A
modification that ironicly was to prevent Gus & his Crewmates from
being saved that fateful day on Apollo 1.

Ooopps..sorry folks..pet-peave..Gus was a Hero..didn't mean to ramble
and gush like a schoolgirl....

airnutz · **Posted:** Thu May 12, 2005 6:19 am

Ahhhh..A&E...

Sorry Digger...close subject to our hearts. But the TBD and SBD are also..
someone will help you this morning.... I'm sure!

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TBD-1 BuNo 1515... this will make you cry

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