old Propellor found in San Francisco Bay

[HarvardIV]

Hello Folks:

The J-aircraft discussion has come up with a pretty good conclusion:

http://www.j-aircraft.org/bbs/navy_config.pl?read=27438

[Paul Krumrei]

I know this sounds crazy, but the Atlantic Ocean has been known to sweep sunken boats from the Keys all the way to the U.K.

Could this prop have floated on the tides and then finally got water logged and sank?

Just a theory.

[Roger Cain]

Thanks for the different suggestions on this one, especially the drifting possibilities. SF Bay has some extremely strong tides, so it wouldn't be a surprise to find that the propellor got pulled into the bay. It was supposedly floating in the SF Bay, so it wasn't sunk and recovered off the bottom.

Is that the same David Aiken that I bought all my DieCast Corsairs from?

[HarvardIV]

Hi Roger:

That's the conclusion I've drawn as well, and I'm glad we've come up with our own conclusions.

[HarvardIV]

I know this sounds crazy, but the Atlantic Ocean has been known to sweep sunken boats from the Keys all the way to the U.K.

Could this prop have floated on the tides and then finally got water logged and sank?

Just a theory.

Hello folks:

Sorry, I've deviated from the main point, but have to give Paul a salute.

Hi Paul:

I saw your website again, it's looking good! Keep up the good work. Seeing those aircraft profiles in detail, looks like you may become some good competition for Squadron Signal's books. A little more blood sweat and tears, and you may have one of the best sites on the web.

[David_Aiken]

Aloha All,
I have asked several of my sensei to have a look at the Kanji on the propeller. The photography posted makes it most difficult to read. A rubbing would surely help.

Thus far this is the partial suggestion by one of my sensei of what is said...

九六式小型水上偵察機」 means "Type 96 Small Reconnaissance Seaplane" which was the Watanabe E9W1 (Allied Code: "Slim")

"However, there is a problem in this reading. The propeller diameter of E9W1 is 2.60m according to the manufacturer data. I cannot make out the characters of the second line and the third line on the propeller from the photograph."

Your assistance is appreciated,
David Aiken

[Roger Cain]

Dave,

I'll try contacting these folks and see if we can get a rubbing of the markings.

Chris,

No conclusions here from me, just a speculation...............

[David_Aiken]

Thanks for the different suggestions on this one, especially the drifting possibilities. SF Bay has some extremely strong tides, so it wouldn't be a surprise to find that the propellor got pulled into the bay. It was supposedly floating in the SF Bay, so it wasn't sunk and recovered off the bottom.

Is that the same David Aiken that I bought all my DieCast Corsairs from?

Aloha All,
The quality of the Kanji imbedded in the wood is too good for a prewar aircraft [code name SLIM] propeller to have survived such an ocean crossing AND the 60+ years of soaking. The brass has not deteriorated either. I doubt the provenance as stated.
Malama pono,
David Aiken
PS: The name "David Aiken" is historic to the "Aiken" linage...so many family lines have named their sons "David"...
I do not have the business which you suggested.

[agent86]

If I'm not mistaken,It was claimed that the prop was found in 1947.So then yes it is quite possible.maybe it was from an unknown kamikaze attack on frisco bay,then again, maybe not.

[HarvardIV]

Aloha All,
The quality of the Kanji imbedded in the wood is too good for a prewar aircraft [code name SLIM] propeller to have survived such an ocean crossing AND the 60+ years of soaking. The brass has not deteriorated either. I doubt the provenance as stated.

More like 3-7 years of soaking.

[David_Aiken]

....maybe it was from an unknown kamikaze attack on frisco bay,then again, maybe not.

IF the kanji is correct -thus far- then we have another 'problem' in the provenance: The prewar SLIM was not used operationally in WWII...

[HarvardIV]

What do the metric numbers indicate? The time in salt water isn't a problem it didn't spend that many years at sea.

[marine air]

Don't know the answer but here are some clues;

It was found in 1947, in San Francisco Bay
It is made of wood, brass and varnished with Japanese writing
It has a stop drill, wood rash at the bolt holes, and other evidence of it having been used and maybe unservicable.
If they took it to a prop shop and got its length and pitch it would help describe how the prop was used.

Theory 1) Being varnished, it never sank, but floated for days or weeks until the currents took it to SF Bay. Maybe from Japanese soil. It's aerodynamic shaped helped it somehow.

Theory 2) It was a war prize that some sailor threw overboard rather than risk failing an inspection on ship and be denied shore leave at San Francisco. It only floated in the bay.

Theory 3) Enemy aircraft operated off the west coast of U.S., Prop was deemed nonairworthy and tossed overboard.

THeory 4) After the war, lots and lots of stuff was being hauled out to sea and dumped, jeeps,aircraft, ammunition, etc. The prop buoyed to the surface and made the one in a million chance of floating to U.S. soil. Note how the trailing edges are banged up like maybe it had stuff stacked on top of it.

If I didn't know, I would guess it to be off of a PT-19 or Stinson 108. It looks too modern to be pre-war. Used on engine of 125 to 275 hp. range with normal operating range in the 2000 to 2600 rpm. Doesn't have paddle shape of lower RPM engines. Long and slender- great for range and efficiency, terrible for water operations. Doesnt show any water related wear and tear. Could it be off of a WW II Japanese primary trainer?

[David_Aiken]

Aloha All,
I have asked several of my sensei to have a look at the Kanji on the propeller. The photography posted makes it most difficult to read. A rubbing would surely help.

Thus far this is the partial suggestion by one of my sensei of what is said...

九六式小型水上偵察機」 means "Type 96 Small Reconnaissance Seaplane" which was the Watanabe E9W1 (Allied Code: "Slim")

"However, there is a problem in this reading. The propeller diameter of E9W1 is 2.60m according to the manufacturer data. I cannot make out the characters of the second line and the third line on the propeller from the photograph."

Your assistance is appreciated,
David Aiken

Aloha Marine Air,
While waiting for the rubbing...the single readable line says it was used on a Watanabe E9W1 biplane-float plane...a PRE-WAR aircraft.
Cheers,
David Aiken

[Roger Cain]

At present, I have yet to hear back from the person requesting the information. According to a person at Schellville that was familiar with that prop, I received an email from New Zealand on this and am posting it below.

Hi

Many thanks for your message with the intriguing question!

I'm in Australia at present (and will be for several months) but my
reference material is all back in New Zealand. However, I have some
ideas and some good contacts, so I think we'll find an answer before long.

My first thoughts are that it is a prop from a Japanese training
aircraft such as a Tachikawa "Hickory" that was collected as a souvenir
in Japan post-war and then either thrown away in a trash collection,
lost overboard, or lost if the ship carrying it sank.

The Japanese occupied the Philippines in WW2, so the prop could have been
made at that time, or simply made pre-war from imported wood.

I'll forward your message to some people who should be able to translate
the markings

Cheers

Charles