Warbird Information Exchange

Hi all

I will try to do a piece/essay on the influence of film and the role of film industry in historical aviation preservation. Right now the angles I think are worth exploring are:

- The use of aircraft for film, or replicas, with end up feeding the preservation "circuits", like museums, associations or individuals. I would think the first important film to achieve this was the megalomaniac production of "Hell's Angels", from Hughes. Another titles that spring to mind are "Tora! Tora! Tora!", "Battle of Britain", "Catch 22", "The great Waldo Pepper".

- Films as a kind of motivator/awareness wake up call, enthusiasm device that spurred interest again and in a way mingled with the rebirth of warbird restoration and preservation movement. Here, my main question is, were films instrumental in setting this going or (more probable) was it a conjunction of times? Baby boomers getting old, good economy, something that was starting to be felt in the air.

I would be most obliged to read your thoughts about this.

Many thanks for yours insights,

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rreis

If you want pictures, see rreis@flickr

i think you are right on course with a great piece!!

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

Are you interested in / able to get English language publications as references?

I can provide details for a few academic level titles as well as the more popular and well known books on these types.

As to your initial concept, it looks good to me, with the exception of Waldo Pepper which wasn't a significant film in terms of preservation - although a great move.

Catch 22 was critical in B-25 preservation, as the Battle of Britain film was for BoB 'era' types.

There is a good collection of HeII's Angels models and memorabilia at the Sun n Fun museum, Florida.

You could have a footnote about The Aviator as partly a film about a film about aviation...

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James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com

Great Idea.

On your second point I will say IMO, it was the combination of both. The realization of the importance of telling the story of that generation, and the want to be historically accurate. The film industry helped to preserve some of these aircraft and in doing so brought the signifigance of such aircraft before the public's eye. In order to keep the memories of what each generation did, the warbird movement really got a boost. People finally understood that aircraft do have historical importance just as much as those who flew them in to harms way. And what better way to keep their memories alive than to preserve the mighty machines they flew.


I hope that makes sense.

And again great topic for an essay.

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Robert "JP" Spivey

glad to help if i can, just let me know!!

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

Just being devil's advocate. I wouldn't say that the motion picture industry "preserved" anything. (In fairness, maybe you weren't saying that either. It's that they played a role in preservation.) Their stereotypical m.o. is to obtain the most for the least and move on. I think there are any number of stories of airplanes altered, damaged, or destroyed during filming or physically/financially abandoned after filming ends.

Groups, like Tallmantz, were paid to provide airframes and, no matter how much they may have had their heart in it, we can agree that all those B-25s wouldn't have been saved had there not been a business motive.

I applaud the motion picture industry for having a budget to allow for real aircraft and I appreciate that the outcome is that a number of airframes have been saved as a result - but I would submit that the resulting preserved airframes are essentially an unintended consequence of filmmaking.

Hi all. Thanks for the thumbs up.

JDK: yes, I would much welcome any written (or other) references I could use to improve my knowledge about this. Right now I'm visiting my parents but soon I will be back to my writing desk. From the top of my head (and a help of my librarything account), I can quote being there waiting for me,

"from the Wright brothers to Top Gun" (re-reading), "The Airplane in American Culture", "Spitfires and Polished Metal: Restoring the Classic Fighter", "Restoring Museum Aircraft", "The Spectacle of Flight: Aviation and the Western Imagination, 1920-1950" (still reading) and "
A Passion for Wings: Aviation and the Western Imagination, 1908-1918"

I'm thinking on acquiring "FLYING THE OLD PLANE" but let me tell you I'm not digging the increase of prices for international shipping by UPS...


tom d. friedman: thanks! I'll surely think of something

RSpivey: I also think it was a fortunate conjecture of things, where the need to remember played an important part. Maybe there is a feeling of gratitude and tribute from the baby boomer generation to their parents that fought the war? After all it seems (to me) that the biggest effort in restoration and preservation goes to WWII aircraft...

Ken: thanks for your comment. I'm not so naive to say the film industry worked consciously to preserve these machines. It's more in the line you mention: they played a role. One of my questions is, how important was that role in:

- the number of flying and museum machines we have today;
- spurring interest in the general public about historical aviation? I mean, there is not (I think, correct me please if I am wrong) any film that targeted the warbird crowd or had such effects like "Top Gun" on navy fliers future recruits so the effect (on the public) must be a more tenuous, side-effect.

So, maybe, also, I should take the opportunity and ask for remarks and pointers on what spurred the birth of the so called "warbird movement"...

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rreis

If you want pictures, see rreis@flickr

Don't forget the SBD's and I beleive a Corsair or two that were used as wind machines by the studios, and survived because of that.

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If the first casualty of war is innocence, the second is sobriety - Hawkeye.
Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws - Plato.
Lies get halfway round the world before the truth has a chance to get it's pants on - Churchill
If you are going through he11 - keep going - Churchill

sorry, never heard about those, could you say a bit more (or point me in the right direction?)

many thanks,

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rreis

If you want pictures, see rreis@flickr

"Top Gun" sure helped the Flight Jacket business!

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"Always remember that, when you enter the ocean or the forest, you are no longer at the top of the food chain."

and 'Ray Ban'!!!

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S.

More and more the focus is shifting towards Vietnam Era. From my experiences with Vietnam Era aircraft and public interaction at airshows and events, I think there is a marked shift in focus starting, as seen with movies such as "We Were Soldiers". It was only recently that those who served in Vietnam started to see all the respect and treatment that was not given to them. Personally, I think that generation, especially with the situation the US finds itself in militarily, is becoming more willing with age to share their experiences. It's finally clicking that these folks won't live forever either and somehow their story must keep being told.

For years we have had the Wall, but by preserving Vietnam Conflict Era aircraft we can honor all those who served, and those who never came home. And we can do it at any airshow in America. Living History is what it's all about.

Again I'm just stating my viewpoint. I've seen grown men cry at the sight of an aircraft because one just like it saved their life, and the lives of others. And I'm sure most others who have crewed aircraft here have similar experiences. We are a group who believes in keeping history alive. "Keep 'em Flying" is what we believe. The film industry helps in the effort to bring people into our world and our way of thinking by telling the stories, and telling them accurately down to the buttons on the uniform and the rivets on the wing.

Many of us know that without "Battle of Britain", "Tora! Tora! Tora!", and the likes that those aircraft probably wouldn't be here today. I think if you haven't done it already, post your question on some other aviation related (not warbird) forums (flight sim forums, cessna pilots hangout, etc.). As the warbird crowd is more likely to see things from the warbird side rather than someone who just likes aviation.

Again just my opinion and I hope it makes sense.

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Robert "JP" Spivey

I gotta wonder how many Corsairs were saved due to the timely appearance of the 'Black Sheep Squadron' TV series, crappy as it was story wise, in the midst of the growing warbird movement with all those gorgeous F4U's and other birds whizzing around on the screen.....

Mark

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Mark Morris

You've got several I was thinking of, which is encouraging we are on the same lines...

Some others that come to mind:

My late friend Robert Rudhall's two books on the Battle of Britain film would probably worth searching out; while they aren't academic, they are focussed on the chapter and verse of making the film which aircraft were involved and, at the time of writing what had happened to them. (There's a recent edition of one or both of them which has introduced errors, so try and track down first editions.)

Fly Past, Fly Present, published by Arms & Armour 185409226X, 1995, ed Roger Chesneau, has a number of useful essays by authorities in the field.

I have a very old book Films and the Second World War by Roger Manvell, 0498014738, Dent & Sons 1974, which has some interesting, now period views in it.

More recent are two relating to the Battle of Britain, the film and other related pop culture items. The Burning Blue - A new history of the Battle of Britain Ed Paul Addison & Jeremy A Craig, 2000, 0712664750, Pimilco/Random House is a collection of essays, including one on the film, and other worthwhile commemorative and retrospective issues addressed. The Battle of Britain on Screen - The 'Few' in British Film & Television Drama, edited by S P Mackenzie, Edinburgh University Press, 2007 9780748623907, does what it says, and goes into more detail on more films from 1939 onwards (yes, 1939...).

The old book on the CAF History of the Ghost Squadron might be worth a look.

Most of the above should be obtainable on inter-library loan in English-speaking countries.

Hope that helps, keep us posted as to how you go!

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James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com

There is some info on a Corsair wind machine and SBD/A-24s here:-

http://www.warbirdregistry.org/corsairregistry/fg1-92304.html

http://www.warbirdregistry.org/sbdregistry/sbd-10518.html

http://www.warbirdregistry.org/sbdregistry/sbd-28536.html

http://www.warbirdregistry.org/sbdregistry/a24-4254593.html

http://www.warbirdregistry.org/sbdregistry/a24-4254643.html

http://www.warbirdregistry.org/sbdregistry/a24-4254654.html

There may possibly be more types that were used, possibly others would know.

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If the first casualty of war is innocence, the second is sobriety - Hawkeye.
Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws - Plato.
Lies get halfway round the world before the truth has a chance to get it's pants on - Churchill
If you are going through he11 - keep going - Churchill