Bill and JDK
Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:50 am
Hi, I am David Greenwood, Bill's son, and I am passing this message along for him.
It's well known that JDK and Bill had a conflict on WIX, resulting in Bill being banned, and for the record, despite what JDK or anyone else says Bill was not writing about politics when banned. His last post was "Are there young people coming into warbirds" and that was the final conflict with JDK. One can go back to Dec, 08 and look up exactly what was written. Bill had pretty much given up about writing about of the large political issues on WIX as unfortunately so many, (not all) here just don't seem to care about the continued loss of our young people after 8 years of war. There are, of course, many govt issues that are closely related to aviation and warbirds, and Bill thinks they should be part of WIX.
At Oshkosh this year, JDK offered Bill a beer and a handshake. That's ok, no harm done, but it does not go far enough.
JDK offered no apology, no change in his position that he was the one to decide who is worthy to write on WIX and who is effect is relegated to being a 2nd class citizen. Whenever anyone came on with positive comments about Bill or his writing on WIX, JDK was quick to try and divert the topic or even censor and close it. There were, of course, negative comments, some from people like J. Boyle or VG Photo who never even met Bill.
Bill believes he does have some things to offer from his experiences from 30 years as a pilot and airplane owner, specifically 25 years as a warbird pilot, owner, and airshow participant. He is also a US military vet, a graduate of the USAF mechanic school, as well as a long time EAA and CAF member. Bill also made some financial related posts and these came in part form his degree in finance, from a great school in Austin, as well as his investment training. Money topics are certainly related to warbirds, for good or bad.
I don't believe JDK had these same qualifications, however he seems to be good at computer research.
It is a shame there is not room for most all on WIX and the site could be more interesting and relevant, but Bill has found a lot more spare time when not on WIX.
It's well known that JDK and Bill had a conflict on WIX, resulting in Bill being banned, and for the record, despite what JDK or anyone else says Bill was not writing about politics when banned. His last post was "Are there young people coming into warbirds" and that was the final conflict with JDK. One can go back to Dec, 08 and look up exactly what was written. Bill had pretty much given up about writing about of the large political issues on WIX as unfortunately so many, (not all) here just don't seem to care about the continued loss of our young people after 8 years of war. There are, of course, many govt issues that are closely related to aviation and warbirds, and Bill thinks they should be part of WIX.
At Oshkosh this year, JDK offered Bill a beer and a handshake. That's ok, no harm done, but it does not go far enough.
JDK offered no apology, no change in his position that he was the one to decide who is worthy to write on WIX and who is effect is relegated to being a 2nd class citizen. Whenever anyone came on with positive comments about Bill or his writing on WIX, JDK was quick to try and divert the topic or even censor and close it. There were, of course, negative comments, some from people like J. Boyle or VG Photo who never even met Bill.
Bill believes he does have some things to offer from his experiences from 30 years as a pilot and airplane owner, specifically 25 years as a warbird pilot, owner, and airshow participant. He is also a US military vet, a graduate of the USAF mechanic school, as well as a long time EAA and CAF member. Bill also made some financial related posts and these came in part form his degree in finance, from a great school in Austin, as well as his investment training. Money topics are certainly related to warbirds, for good or bad.
I don't believe JDK had these same qualifications, however he seems to be good at computer research.
It is a shame there is not room for most all on WIX and the site could be more interesting and relevant, but Bill has found a lot more spare time when not on WIX.
Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:53 am
Well, herrrrrre we go again. 
Thread turning ugly in, three......two.....one.........................
Thread turning ugly in, three......two.....one.........................
????
Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:00 pm
I will admit to a few things.
1. I both like and miss both Bill & Mark's participation.
2. I will never be a moderator.
3. What I say or think means little to nothing in the grand scheme of things!
1. I both like and miss both Bill & Mark's participation.
2. I will never be a moderator.
3. What I say or think means little to nothing in the grand scheme of things!
Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:19 pm
The post above was a message passed on from my father, the words following are my own.
I post on a few different message boards, and in my experience, the best ones, with the most number of knowledgeable posters, and the strongest community, are the ones that are moderated the least.
The owners of this site have the right to do whatever they want with it, and since they have relegated power to moderators, those moderators have the right to ban whom they see fit, but from what I have seen, the more heavily moderated boards are NEVER fairly moderated. The moderators always end up being right down in the bickering and arguing just like the people they ban, and the moderators always take sides and ban people for what really amounts to personal reasons.
I post on a skiing site that is almost completely unmoderated. In order to get banned, you have to repeatedly post obscene material without warning people who may be looking at the website from their work computers. Either that, or be a spammer, rip people off in the classifieds section, or break the law somehow, those are really the only ways you can get banned.
There are some stupid arguments at that site, and some people get called names, but if you're not into that kind of thing, you just ignore it, it really isn't all that hard.
What does manage to exist in part because of the lack of moderation, is an absolutely amazing community. I've had couches to sleep on in far away places, gotten free gear, given free rides across the country, and quite literally trusted my life to people I've through the internet when climbing and skiing 14,000 foot backcountry peaks.
The other boards I read are firearms boards, and I mostly read those for the information there, most of them have no real community to speak of. The only one that does, happens to be very lightly moderated as well.
It has been my experience, that the more heavily moderated a board is, the more it drives away people who would both bring knowledge and form a real community.
Just some observations. Make of them what you will.
Regardless, I think my father has been banned here for a while, and probably deserves a second chance, if the moderators have any sort of maturity, I think they'll see that.
Is there an ignore function here? The skiing website I post on has a feature where you can add someone to your ignore list, then you can no longer see their posts. If there was that feature here, maybe that would be an easier solution to the problem.
I post on a few different message boards, and in my experience, the best ones, with the most number of knowledgeable posters, and the strongest community, are the ones that are moderated the least.
The owners of this site have the right to do whatever they want with it, and since they have relegated power to moderators, those moderators have the right to ban whom they see fit, but from what I have seen, the more heavily moderated boards are NEVER fairly moderated. The moderators always end up being right down in the bickering and arguing just like the people they ban, and the moderators always take sides and ban people for what really amounts to personal reasons.
I post on a skiing site that is almost completely unmoderated. In order to get banned, you have to repeatedly post obscene material without warning people who may be looking at the website from their work computers. Either that, or be a spammer, rip people off in the classifieds section, or break the law somehow, those are really the only ways you can get banned.
There are some stupid arguments at that site, and some people get called names, but if you're not into that kind of thing, you just ignore it, it really isn't all that hard.
What does manage to exist in part because of the lack of moderation, is an absolutely amazing community. I've had couches to sleep on in far away places, gotten free gear, given free rides across the country, and quite literally trusted my life to people I've through the internet when climbing and skiing 14,000 foot backcountry peaks.
The other boards I read are firearms boards, and I mostly read those for the information there, most of them have no real community to speak of. The only one that does, happens to be very lightly moderated as well.
It has been my experience, that the more heavily moderated a board is, the more it drives away people who would both bring knowledge and form a real community.
Just some observations. Make of them what you will.
Regardless, I think my father has been banned here for a while, and probably deserves a second chance, if the moderators have any sort of maturity, I think they'll see that.
Is there an ignore function here? The skiing website I post on has a feature where you can add someone to your ignore list, then you can no longer see their posts. If there was that feature here, maybe that would be an easier solution to the problem.
Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:20 pm
Just for the record… Not everyone thinks negatively about him. Some may… but there are many who do not.
I personally have a great opinion of Bill.
And I must say regardless of all the turmoil or alleged commotion or disturbance that was caused on this site, I miss his point of view and perspective on Warbirds a great deal.
I do miss the updates about his aircraft, and some of the discussion that was brought about was quite thought provoking.
David, offer my best to him and I look forward to seeing him at Colorado aviation events.
Best Regards,
Paul
oh... yeah...
I too will admit to a few things.
1. I both like and miss both Bill & Mark's participation.
2. I will never be a moderator.
3. What I say or think means little to nothing in the grand scheme of things!
I personally have a great opinion of Bill.
And I must say regardless of all the turmoil or alleged commotion or disturbance that was caused on this site, I miss his point of view and perspective on Warbirds a great deal.
I do miss the updates about his aircraft, and some of the discussion that was brought about was quite thought provoking.
David, offer my best to him and I look forward to seeing him at Colorado aviation events.
Best Regards,
Paul
oh... yeah...
I too will admit to a few things.
1. I both like and miss both Bill & Mark's participation.
2. I will never be a moderator.
3. What I say or think means little to nothing in the grand scheme of things!
Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:24 pm
Blued,
You got some great pictures on flikr, love the ones of TE308 especially.
I too will admit (gladly) that what I say on this site matters very little in the grand scheme of things.
You got some great pictures on flikr, love the ones of TE308 especially.
I too will admit (gladly) that what I say on this site matters very little in the grand scheme of things.
Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:25 pm
Last edited by Nathan on Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:30 pm
And I second Jack and BLUEDHARMAs statements in full........
say hi for me...and...
Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:34 pm
...how is the spit? I hope all is coming along.
as to the other....MEH....fighting on the internet is like finishing first place in an a$$ kicking contest for men without legs....in the end you are still handicaped....not that there is anything worng with that (< the "thin skinned protection statement!)
as to the other....MEH....fighting on the internet is like finishing first place in an a$$ kicking contest for men without legs....in the end you are still handicaped....not that there is anything worng with that (< the "thin skinned protection statement!)
Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:47 pm
I for one belive that there is enough room here for all of us. I consider Bill a friend, and every time I meet him, he greets me by name with a handshake. If you are at Oshkosh the other one has a deviled egg in it. This year I met JDK, and as I suspected he is a very nice guy. Since this went down, I have seen worse things written on WIX than what Bill said. Bill has much to offer to us, and I am never one for excluding anyone. I am sure I will take heat for it, but the guy is my friend. Besides I take so much heat about Dayton that I am used to it. I think that JDK is a good dude as well, and was doing what he thought was best, and I am sure that the Mod job is not an easy one. I like both of these gentlemen and would like to see everything back to the way it was. The aviation world is small, the warbird world even smaller. So if we start excluding people who are we hurting? Just my thoughts, and I hope they were in proper taste.
Chris
Chris
Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:52 pm
David, please pass along my regards to your Dad. I too hope things are working out with the Spit. 
Robbie
Robbie
Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:21 pm
Just sign back up with a different / new userID as others who have been banned have.... and if someone asks "Hey, aren't you so-n-so who was previously banned?", just answer each one of those posts with:
"Huh?"
And nobody will be the wiser!
Bela P. Havasreti
"Huh?"
And nobody will be the wiser!
Bela P. Havasreti
?????
Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:39 pm
just answer each one of those posts with: "Huh?"
Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:56 pm
snj-5 wrote:Just sign back up with a different / new userID as others who have been banned have.... and if someone asks "Hey, aren't you so-n-so who was previously banned?", just answer each one of those posts with:
"Huh?"
And nobody will be the wiser!
Bela P. Havasreti
Best post this year!
I miss Bill's posts here. Never met him and never will, but I liked having him around here. That said, nobody is banned without reason. You have to draw the line somewhere.
Re: Bill and JDK
Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:32 pm
308WK Crew Member wrote:Hi, I am David Greenwood, Bill's son, and I am passing this message along for him.
It's well known that JDK and Bill had a conflict on WIX, resulting in Bill being banned, and for the record, despite what JDK or anyone else says Bill was not writing about politics when banned. His last post was "Are there young people coming into warbirds" and that was the final conflict with JDK. One can go back to Dec, 08 and look up exactly what was written. Bill had pretty much given up about writing about of the large political issues on WIX as unfortunately so many, (not all) here just don't seem to care about the continued loss of our young people after 8 years of war. There are, of course, many govt issues that are closely related to aviation and warbirds, and Bill thinks they should be part of WIX.
At Oshkosh this year, JDK offered Bill a beer and a handshake. That's ok, no harm done, but it does not go far enough.
JDK offered no apology, no change in his position that he was the one to decide who is worthy to write on WIX and who is effect is relegated to being a 2nd class citizen. Whenever anyone came on with positive comments about Bill or his writing on WIX, JDK was quick to try and divert the topic or even censor and close it. There were, of course, negative comments, some from people like J. Boyle or VG Photo who never even met Bill.
Bill believes he does have some things to offer from his experiences from 30 years as a pilot and airplane owner, specifically 25 years as a warbird pilot, owner, and airshow participant. He is also a US military vet, a graduate of the USAF mechanic school, as well as a long time EAA and CAF member. Bill also made some financial related posts and these came in part form his degree in finance, from a great school in Austin, as well as his investment training. Money topics are certainly related to warbirds, for good or bad.
I don't believe JDK had these same qualifications, however he seems to be good at computer research.
It is a shame there is not room for most all on WIX and the site could be more interesting and relevant, but Bill has found a lot more spare time when not on WIX.
I don't think JDK banned Bill...wasn't it Scott? If so, maybe you and your dad owe JDK an apology. Bill was warned several times, then suspended, warned again and banned. Bill didn't follow Scott's rules...it's Scott's site. Get over it. Move on with your lives.
BTW, I think JDK was the best moderator this site has had (no offense to the other moderators.)
-Pat