Help bring a WWII Fighter to Geneseo!

tom roberts · **Posted:** Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:58 pm

Would be interesting to know if this is the aim of the organization or one individual

Hawkeye · **Posted:** Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:33 pm

I believe the 41' Fighter Fund is due to the initiative of one dedicated HAG member, and has no bearing or effect on the day to day funding of HAG. In other words, money going to the Fighter Fund is not money being taken away from other HAG projects.

Jerry O'Neill · **Posted:** Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:12 pm

Fighters are great and pretty sexy beasts, but Ryan is correct in that an organization of people usually do better with a larger bird. It's different if you have a big bird flying and then, go after a fighter.

It would be smarter to purchase the A-20 and get that running.
It'd be a singular draw for many, both at home and away.
Jerry

Hawkeye · **Posted:** Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:29 pm

Jerry O'Neill wrote:

Fighters are great and pretty sexy beasts, but Ryan is correct in that an organization of people usually do better with a larger bird. It's different if you have a big bird flying and then, go after a fighter.

It would be smarter to purchase the A-20 and get that running.
It'd be a singular draw for many, both at home and away.
Jerry

HAG already has several large flying birds, the Normandy veteran C-47, the C-45, the An-2, and not to mention the Tallichet Memphis Belle thats stationed there. Although I agree the A-20 would make an excellent permanent addition to HAGS flying collection.

Jerry O'Neill · **Posted:** Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:42 pm

I guess my point would be an A-20 would also bring in bigger bucks at away airshows, and have a much wider appeal than the others that HAG owns, which, though I like them all dearly, are a dime a dozen.

Please don't take that the wrong way, but there isn't the demand for those aircraft as there would be for an A-20.
Jerry

AHancock51 · **Posted:** Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:54 pm

warbird1 wrote:

While your goals and motivation are admirable, why don't you guys concentrate on the planes that you do have? Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you guys have a really tough time raising the money to buy the B-23 at only $ 50,000? Also, isn't the B-23 still at Midland because you guys can't raise the $16,000 needed to transport it to New York?

Let's see, you guys have invested about $56,000 so far on the B-23 - it's not a flyer, and it's still in Midland, due to lack of funds and/or personnel. Now, you want to raise somewhere between 1.4 Million and 2.5 Million to buy a flyable P-51 or P-40? How in the world are you going to do that? Unless you are on the 40 year donation schedule, I don't see that happening. By that time, P-51's and P-40's will be over 10 to 15 Million each. Instead of spending the 1.4 Million on a fighter, why don't you guys put 1 Million into the B-23 and make her a flyer? It could carry many, many more passengers for a "flight experience" and you could help support the plane. A Mustang or Warhawk can only carry one passenger at a time.

In addition, I would much rather you guys put the 1.4 Million into the A-20 to make her airworthy. There are ZERO A-20's airworthy at the moment. If you got the A-20 airworthy, you guys could claim worldwide exclusivity for the type! Though I haven't seen the A-20 in person, from the shots I've seen from the previous work at Beaver Falls, it looks like the plane is mostly finished with major restoration, except for the detail work like systems installations, etc. Surely you could make that plane airworthy for substantially less than 1 Million? I thought that both engines were already overhauled and ready to go also. Would it not make more sense to put any money generated into the A-20 which would have a very high chance of completion and could put HAG/1941 on the map with the world's only airworthy A-20?

I'm not trying to discourage you from accomplishing this great goal, but why would I, as a potential investor, have any confidence that you guys could raise the money in my lifetime? Is there something I'm missing here? Is HAG/1941 in some multi-millionaire's will? Does New York have a "heritage fund or lottery fund" to support aviation museums? Have you guys gotten a matching commitment from somewhere? Lottsa questions for this seemingly lofty goal.

-Warbird 1, the level-headed, pragmatic realist

The A-20 isn't ours

AHancock51 · **Posted:** Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:00 pm

Hawkeye wrote:

I believe the 41' Fighter Fund is due to the initiative of one dedicated HAG member, and has no bearing or effect on the day to day funding of HAG. In other words, money going to the Fighter Fund is not money being taken away from other HAG projects.

100% Correct, but it's all for the museum :wink:

warbird1 · **Joined:** Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:25 pm **Posts:** 2760

hagkid91 wrote:

warbird1 wrote:

While your goals and motivation are admirable, why don't you guys concentrate on the planes that you do have? Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you guys have a really tough time raising the money to buy the B-23 at only $ 50,000? Also, isn't the B-23 still at Midland because you guys can't raise the $16,000 needed to transport it to New York?

Let's see, you guys have invested about $56,000 so far on the B-23 - it's not a flyer, and it's still in Midland, due to lack of funds and/or personnel. Now, you want to raise somewhere between 1.4 Million and 2.5 Million to buy a flyable P-51 or P-40? How in the world are you going to do that? Unless you are on the 40 year donation schedule, I don't see that happening. By that time, P-51's and P-40's will be over 10 to 15 Million each. Instead of spending the 1.4 Million on a fighter, why don't you guys put 1 Million into the B-23 and make her a flyer? It could carry many, many more passengers for a "flight experience" and you could help support the plane. A Mustang or Warhawk can only carry one passenger at a time.

In addition, I would much rather you guys put the 1.4 Million into the A-20 to make her airworthy. There are ZERO A-20's airworthy at the moment. If you got the A-20 airworthy, you guys could claim worldwide exclusivity for the type! Though I haven't seen the A-20 in person, from the shots I've seen from the previous work at Beaver Falls, it looks like the plane is mostly finished with major restoration, except for the detail work like systems installations, etc. Surely you could make that plane airworthy for substantially less than 1 Million? I thought that both engines were already overhauled and ready to go also. Would it not make more sense to put any money generated into the A-20 which would have a very high chance of completion and could put HAG/1941 on the map with the world's only airworthy A-20?

I'm not trying to discourage you from accomplishing this great goal, but why would I, as a potential investor, have any confidence that you guys could raise the money in my lifetime? Is there something I'm missing here? Is HAG/1941 in some multi-millionaire's will? Does New York have a "heritage fund or lottery fund" to support aviation museums? Have you guys gotten a matching commitment from somewhere? Lottsa questions for this seemingly lofty goal.

-Warbird 1, the level-headed, pragmatic realist

The A-20 isn't ours

O.K., we've already established that. What about the rest of my questions?

AHancock51 · **Posted:** Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:30 pm

warbird1 wrote:

hagkid91 wrote:

warbird1 wrote:

While your goals and motivation are admirable, why don't you guys concentrate on the planes that you do have? Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you guys have a really tough time raising the money to buy the B-23 at only $ 50,000? Also, isn't the B-23 still at Midland because you guys can't raise the $16,000 needed to transport it to New York?

Let's see, you guys have invested about $56,000 so far on the B-23 - it's not a flyer, and it's still in Midland, due to lack of funds and/or personnel. Now, you want to raise somewhere between 1.4 Million and 2.5 Million to buy a flyable P-51 or P-40? How in the world are you going to do that? Unless you are on the 40 year donation schedule, I don't see that happening. By that time, P-51's and P-40's will be over 10 to 15 Million each. Instead of spending the 1.4 Million on a fighter, why don't you guys put 1 Million into the B-23 and make her a flyer? It could carry many, many more passengers for a "flight experience" and you could help support the plane. A Mustang or Warhawk can only carry one passenger at a time.

In addition, I would much rather you guys put the 1.4 Million into the A-20 to make her airworthy. There are ZERO A-20's airworthy at the moment. If you got the A-20 airworthy, you guys could claim worldwide exclusivity for the type! Though I haven't seen the A-20 in person, from the shots I've seen from the previous work at Beaver Falls, it looks like the plane is mostly finished with major restoration, except for the detail work like systems installations, etc. Surely you could make that plane airworthy for substantially less than 1 Million? I thought that both engines were already overhauled and ready to go also. Would it not make more sense to put any money generated into the A-20 which would have a very high chance of completion and could put HAG/1941 on the map with the world's only airworthy A-20?

I'm not trying to discourage you from accomplishing this great goal, but why would I, as a potential investor, have any confidence that you guys could raise the money in my lifetime? Is there something I'm missing here? Is HAG/1941 in some multi-millionaire's will? Does New York have a "heritage fund or lottery fund" to support aviation museums? Have you guys gotten a matching commitment from somewhere? Lottsa questions for this seemingly lofty goal.

-Warbird 1, the level-headed, pragmatic realist

The A-20 isn't ours

O.K., we've already established that. What about the rest of my questions?

This is about the fund, nothing more, nothing less.

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