Warbird Information Exchange

DISCLAIMER: The views expressed on this site are the responsibility of the poster and do not reflect the views of the management.
It is currently Sun Jun 22, 2025 11:34 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Classic Wings Magazine WWII Naval Aviation Research Pacific Luftwaffe Resource Center
When Hollywood Ruled The Skies - Volumes 1 through 4 by Bruce Oriss


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 53 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 8:14 pm 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!

Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:10 am
Posts: 1132
Location: Cambridge, New Zealand
More photos from the late Neville Jackson's collection, these three shots of a B-29 Superfortress causing a stir at a New Zealand (and Allied) base in the Pacific, and most probably at Piva, Bougainville as I believe as that's where Neville was based when he flew Corsairs with No. 21 Squadron RNZAF. I wonder if anyone knows why it was down that far visiting? Do you recognise the nose art?

Image

Image

Image

_________________
The Wings Over New Zealand Forum http://rnzaf.proboards.com

The Wings Over New Zealand Show http://www.cambridgeairforce.org.nz/WONZ_Show.html

Wings Over Cambridge http://www.cambridgeairforce.org.nz


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:02 pm 
Offline
3000+ Post Club
3000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:56 pm
Posts: 3442
Location: North of Texas, South of Kansas
That airplane is a bit of a mystery to me, Dave. I'll put on my thinking cap and try to figure out what is going on there.

It appears to have been a 73rd Wing airplane judging from the nose art. Why they stripped all the Group identification I don't know. It also has the APQ-13 radar mounted, but all four CFC turrets are gone. Also, the waist blisters have been faired over just like the B-29B or Silverplate Superforts, but it has SCR 729 antennae. I confess I don't know what is going on...... Do you have an approximate timeframe to date the photo?

Good stuff,
Scott


Last edited by Second Air Force on Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:21 am 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!

Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:10 am
Posts: 1132
Location: Cambridge, New Zealand
I'm not certain it is Bougainville but the dates I have for Neville's tours were:

First Tour
Guadalcanal November-December 1944
Bougainville December 1944 - February 1945

Second Tour
Green Island April-May 1945
Jacquinot Bay May-July 1945

So it has to be one of these bases I guess. Does this help?

Note there is some faint writing on the starboard side too.

_________________
The Wings Over New Zealand Forum http://rnzaf.proboards.com

The Wings Over New Zealand Show http://www.cambridgeairforce.org.nz/WONZ_Show.html

Wings Over Cambridge http://www.cambridgeairforce.org.nz


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:57 am 
Offline
3000+ Post Club
3000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:56 pm
Posts: 3442
Location: North of Texas, South of Kansas
Thanks for those dates, Dave.

The 73rd Wing removed nose art in late winter/early spring of '45. February and March keep popping into my mind as to when the order was implemented.

In the third photo, am I seeing a 497th Group square on the center of the vertical fin? It may be that I'm imagining it, but it does seem to be a lighter area of skin I'm seeing.

I was thinking about these photos this morning while doing chores, and I'm wondering if this isn't the Wing Commander's personal airplane or some kind of Wing rum-runner/utility ship. That would possibly explain the lack of markings and turrets. The B-29 units did send men back and forth to the rear areas with regularity, and I have read stories of trips to Australia with "resupply" missions on the return trip to the Marianas.

Scott


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:48 pm 
Offline
3000+ Post Club
3000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 3:08 pm
Posts: 4542
Location: chicago
That makes sense as a plausible explantion for no markings and being stripped down. Neat photos!

Scott, why did they remove the nose art? That was the standardized markings correct? Did they go to personal preference after that?

_________________
.
.
Sure, Charles Lindbergh flew the plane... but Tom Rutledge built the engine!

Visit Django Studios online or Facebook!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:47 am 
Offline
3000+ Post Club
3000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:56 pm
Posts: 3442
Location: North of Texas, South of Kansas
Second Air Force wrote:
Thanks for those dates, Dave.

In the third photo, am I seeing a 497th Group square on the center of the vertical fin? It may be that I'm imagining it, but it does seem to be a lighter area of skin I'm seeing.

Scott


First off, I have to clarify the above quote from earlier. I should have said "73rd Wing square" not 497th Group. The Groups used letters and the geometric symbol is the Wing identifier.

Chad,

The story I've seen most often is that there were objections by people in the States to the more explicit nose art on War Weary Superforts returning to the CONUS. An official order eventually got out to the Marianas, and the 73rd Wing followed the orders pretty strictly. All nose art on the left side went away and the Ball and Barb became the standard in all four 73rd Wing Groups. The other Wings either ignored the order or were less strict in interpreting the directive.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:28 am 
Offline
Account Suspended
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:06 pm
Posts: 2713
314th BW on Guam had the same directive. Stuck with the standard 'G&F' (Globe and Flag) logo on ALL 314th Supers!

Scott,

Is it possible that the above 29 is on a 'Victory' tour like 'Waltzing Matilda'?

_________________
S.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:30 am 
Offline
3000+ Post Club
3000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 3:08 pm
Posts: 4542
Location: chicago
Scott, do you have any pics of war weary 29s at CONUS with nose art?

_________________
.
.
Sure, Charles Lindbergh flew the plane... but Tom Rutledge built the engine!

Visit Django Studios online or Facebook!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:43 am 
Offline
3000+ Post Club
3000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:56 pm
Posts: 3442
Location: North of Texas, South of Kansas
the330thbg wrote:

Scott,

Is it possible that the above 29 is on a 'Victory' tour like 'Waltzing Matilda'?


Dave listed the dates when Neville Jackson was stationed at the possible airfields that he took these photos at, but all of the dates are pre-August '45. That sort of precludes these being victory tour photos, but I guess not entirely. I've contacted an expert researcher about this thread and maybe he'll unearth something concrete. He discerned a "T" above the square on the third photo, which would make it a former 498th machine.

It's interesting that there are no markings whatsoever except the Ball and Barb, and that, along with the fact that it is stripped of armament, makes me think the airplane is an administrative/utility airplane.

Oh, I found a rough dating for the 73rd Wing art removal. It was removed in April and May of '45.

S


Last edited by Second Air Force on Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:01 am 
Offline
Account Suspended
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:06 pm
Posts: 2713
remember 'Matilda' was stripped as well of all markings except the new 'kangaroo' nose art.

Very curious as to your findings.

As always, many thanks for all of your efforts.

_________________
S.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:09 am 
Offline
3000+ Post Club
3000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:56 pm
Posts: 3442
Location: North of Texas, South of Kansas
You're right about Matilda, Smis. In the case of this airplane, the later 73rd Wing letter was never applied to the fin. If we're actually seeing the first Group/Wing codes in the photo, and I'm certain that we are, that would indicate that the airplane was a retiree that never got the late style 12-foot letter. I've been researching the 498th Group aircraft list and found that a couple of airplanes were damaged on Saipan and "written off" afterward. It isn't beyond the realm of possibility that the Service Group rejuvenated it and the Wing flew it "off the books" as a hack. Hopefully we'll be able to solve this one!

S


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:10 am 
Offline
Account Suspended
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:06 pm
Posts: 2713
Infamous DUPE

_________________
S.


Last edited by the330thbg on Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:13 am 
Offline
Account Suspended
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:06 pm
Posts: 2713
Scott.., you are not crazy either.., i see the infamous 'T Square' on the tail as well.

_________________
S.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:44 am
Posts: 257
Second Air Force wrote:
You're right about Matilda, Smis. In the case of this airplane, the later 73rd Wing letter was never applied to the fin. If we're actually seeing the first Group/Wing codes in the photo, and I'm certain that we are, that would indicate that the airplane was a retiree that never got the late style 12-foot letter. I've been researching the 498th Group aircraft list and found that a couple of airplanes were damaged on Saipan and "written off" afterward. It isn't beyond the realm of possibility that the Service Group rejuvenated it and the Wing flew it "off the books" as a hack. Hopefully we'll be able to solve this one!

S


Scott,

There is an account of the Service Group that was patched together to service B-29's on Iwo Jima (drawn from thoughout the 73rd Wing) that put together a composite B-29 from scrapped airframes. Their commander even "procured" new engines and props. Wings, nacelles, and other large parts were swapped out. It became his personal pleasure aircraft until it was seized by higher ranking officers on Guam. Though the date of this happening was sometime after September 3, 1945. See the chapter "Birth of an Illigitimate B-29" in the book Final Assualt on the Rising Sun....


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:08 am 
Offline
3000+ Post Club
3000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:56 pm
Posts: 3442
Location: North of Texas, South of Kansas
Thanks for that account, Edward.

I knew I'd read of at least one B-29 that was of somewhat shady lineage. This might answer our question, or at least prove that we could be on the right track. The date seems too late for this to be the same airplane that Neville Jackson photographed, but there were bound to be other "special" Superforts resurrected by those ingenious mechanics in the Marianas.

Scott


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 53 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 62 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group