Speaking of L-birds.....

Pogmusic · **Posted:** Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:22 pm

I have time in L-3s, L-4s, L-6s and L-16s and L-21s. I was reading on one of the L-bird sites that the L-3 was a "combat" L-bird. In my study of L-bird history, I thought the only US "combat" L-birds were: L-1, L-4, L-5, L-16, L-17 & L-19. I always thought the L-3 was used stateside as a trainer of both pilots and observers.

Any insight to this would be appreciated.

airnutz · **Posted:** Wed Dec 23, 2009 1:22 pm

Until the experts show up...L-3's served in North Africa, Italy, South Pacific, and Korea to name a few. Some were loaned or gifted to the Free French, as well.

Pogmusic · **Posted:** Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:24 pm

Nearly every source I look into says that the L-3 was declared obsolete by the time we entered the war and were regulated to training roles. They never left the states. A couple of reports state that some were accidentally shipped to N. Africa and were used by the Free French.

airnutz · **Posted:** Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:32 pm

Pogmusic wrote:

Nearly every source I look into says that the L-3 was declared obsolete by the time we entered the war and were regulated to training roles. They never left the states. A couple of reports state that some were accidentally shipped to N. Africa and were used by the Free French.

Yep, I've run into that before. Sounds like Wiki strikes again. Google Aeronca L-3 in combat or
Aeronca L-3 Africa etc. and you'll find some theater photos pretty quick. I'da thought some of the L-nuts
would've posted photos, etc. by now...maybe later?

RyanShort1 · **Posted:** Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:31 pm

airnutz wrote:

Pogmusic wrote:

Nearly every source I look into says that the L-3 was declared obsolete by the time we entered the war and were regulated to training roles. They never left the states. A couple of reports state that some were accidentally shipped to N. Africa and were used by the Free French.

Yep, I've run into that before. Sounds like Wiki strikes again. Google Aeronca L-3 in combat or
Aeronca L-3 Africa etc. and you'll find some theater photos pretty quick. I'da thought some of the L-nuts
would've posted photos, etc. by now...maybe later?

Well, I thought I had a black and white photo of the L-3's in the Philippines, however, I had a hard drive crash about a month ago and will have to dig around quite a bit to find my source(s). For sure I can't find the pictures.
There are shots of L-3s in the Pacific (I think a whole squadron in the Philippines), With the Free French in North Africa, and in Lightplanes at War Ken Wakefield published a shot he received of an L-3 on an airfield in Italy.
For the moment, from Footnote, here's a shot of an L-3 in the southwest Pacific with it's wings off.

Ryan

Pogmusic · **Posted:** Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:46 pm

Thanks Ryan!
All I've ever seen is that the L-3 was not a "Combat" A/C. Any other combat photos of L-3s would be appreciated. I think that even the NMUSAF shows that the only combat role was with the Free French.

RyanShort1 · **Posted:** Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:07 pm

Pogmusic wrote:

Thanks Ryan!
All I've ever seen is that the L-3 was not a "Combat" A/C. Any other combat photos of L-3s would be appreciated. I think that even the NMUSAF shows that the only combat role was with the Free French.

Can't find that photo (even L-4 photos are hard to come by) but I know that they saw service in the Pacific - I think in the Philippines.

Ryan

airnutz · **Posted:** Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:25 pm

Hmmm...not as easy as I recall and I can't lay hands on the Terry Love L-bird book right
now for units & such to search by. Following is a EAA blurb with a photo of a 1st Cav
L-3 in the south pacific at the bottom of the page ..
http://eaa1414.org/Newsletter/PDF/July2007.pdf

WWIIABN · **Joined:** Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:23 pm **Posts:** 27

I thought the L-3 was a non-combat L-bird also. I did some Googling and found this. Reportedly from Admiralty Islands with the 1st Cav Division and 36th Div in Italy/Sicily

http://www.armywingsandwheels.com/res/A ... get30.html
http://www.armywingsandwheels.com/res/A ... get32.html
http://www.armywingsandwheels.com/res/A ... get34.html
http://www.armywingsandwheels.com/res/A ... get92.html
http://www.armywingsandwheels.com/res/A ... get93.html

Home for above photos
http://www.armywingsandwheels.com/res/A ... index.html

Obergrafeter · **Posted:** Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:46 pm

I think the photo Ryan is looking for is of L-3s on Los Negroes during the war. I've seen it many times don't have it though.

Taylor Stevenson · **Posted:** Wed Dec 23, 2009 6:15 pm

1st Cav Div used L-3s extensively before receiving L-5s in the Pacific. Also, I have seen several photos of L-3s as bomb/fighter group hacks. There is a neat photo somewhere of an L-3 sitting in front of a B-17 with the same unit markings.

JBoyle · **Posted:** Thu Dec 24, 2009 5:23 pm

After reading Wakefield a few years back, I would have gladly said what the others here have said...and repeated the conventional wisdom that only L-4s and 5s were used overseas (except for the French).

I just checked my copy and Wakefield notes that nearly all L-3s shipped to Europe by mistake were in turn operated by the French. Pg.47. Ond he does reprint only one photo of a US L-3.
We have to remember that his book is subtitled "US Liaison Aircraft in Europe, 1942-47"...so his failure to mention any L-3s in the Pacific is logical but its omission shouldn't be a case for stating that NO L-3s were used in that theater. Like most of you, I probably just assumed it.

The Squadron Book US Liaison Aircraft in Action, notes that "a few" L-3s made it overseas to Europe, Africa and the Pacific. But again, it notes that those in Africa were given to the French and provides no other details or photos of overseas L-3s.

L2Driver · **Posted:** Thu Dec 24, 2009 6:49 pm

Found this Wiki blurb pretty entertaining:
"Liaison pilots would train in an L-3 and then be moved on to larger aircraft like the Piper L-4 or, in the case of the Army Air Corps, the Stinson L-5."

The jump from L-3 to the mighty L-4 must have been pretty inspiring!! :rolleyes:

RyanShort1 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 24, 2009 7:04 pm

L2Driver wrote:

Found this Wiki blurb pretty entertaining:
"Liaison pilots would train in an L-3 and then be moved on to larger aircraft like the Piper L-4 or, in the case of the Army Air Corps, the Stinson L-5."

The jump from L-3 to the mighty L-4 must have been pretty inspiring!! :rolleyes:

Sounds like the Wiki might need some editing... Might just have to go do that tonight or sooner (edit - done!).

Ryan

WWIIABN · **Joined:** Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:23 pm **Posts:** 27

The L-4 might have seemed a step up after the L-3. Once airborne, the L-3 was faster and flew slightly better, IMHO. It could NOT however takeoff and land nearly as short as an L-4. Still, I seriously doubt the Army considered it such a big leap. L-3 or L-4 to L-5, yep. Big difference.

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