Warbird Information Exchange

Hello All,

I was wondering what brands of coatings/paint most of the restoration shops out there are using in their restorations, and the pros and cons with each type of coating/paint. I have always used Alumigrip by AkzoNobel Aerospace Coatings and have had great luck with it.

Thanks Patrick

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I think it depends on the owner and the budget, mainly. Recently though I heard that fabric control surfaces can't have urethane paint, but are required to have acrylic enamel now. Anyone know if that's true?

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Mike

Ditto, also Imron (old/original formula, not the new crap). We also have some epoxy primer stuff that Boeing came up with (the BRIGHT green stuff) & the YellowDeath epoxy primer from DuPont.

I think we've also used Deltron... altho that maybe the Cobra's I painted.. (Shelby, not Bell)

In the past: Centauri w/Yellow Death primer on the Wright Patt PR11 Spit.

& I'm not sure who makes the stuff we use to match the wrinkly/crinkly finish on P51 rad/oil cooler door actuators.

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Those who possess real knowledge are rare.

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It's been a minor Eon since I picked up the GTi (prefer DeVilbis to Sata), so I'm not sure. Is that an EPA or FAA reg?

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Those who possess real knowledge are rare.

Those who can set that knowledge into motion in the physical world are rarer still.

The few who possess real knowledge and can set it into motion of their own hands are the rarest of all.

The STC's on most (all?) fabric systems have been altered. Once upon a time, you could cover an aircraft in Ceconite, for example, using the adhesives, fabrics, tapes, primers, etc. listed in the STC and then you could apply whatever finish coat you desired - the ones sold by Ceconite, or Imron, for example.

After numerous jobs went bad (the fabric system manufacturers blamed automotive based top coats), the STC's were altered and now you are only permitted to use the Ceconite coatings. Same thing for Polyfiber, Airtech, etc.

This applies for the entire fabric system, not just the control surfaces.

Myself, I like Endura polyurethane, though not on fabric. It's an easy to use, very stable product made here in Canada and there's a shop that can mix colors to order only about twenty minutes from my place. With the metal properly cleaned, prepped, and primed, this stuff really, really sticks, but like any polyurethane you need to have a really well ventilated paint shop.

Dan

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Defending Stearmans on WIX since Jeff started badmouthing them back in 2005.

Or a fresh air supplied respirator

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Those who possess real knowledge are rare.

Those who can set that knowledge into motion in the physical world are rarer still.

The few who possess real knowledge and can set it into motion of their own hands are the rarest of all.

Those work very well also.

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Defending Stearmans on WIX since Jeff started badmouthing them back in 2005.

These guys are pretty good for supplies:
www.autobodytoolmart.com

They seem to have everything except a booth big enough for an assembled aircraft. When you call you speak with someone in Chicago, but they have places around the country (SoCal depot is in Sunland). They've always had the stuff I need on my doorstep the next morning.

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Those who possess real knowledge are rare.

Those who can set that knowledge into motion in the physical world are rarer still.

The few who possess real knowledge and can set it into motion of their own hands are the rarest of all.

I'm a big fan of dupont's zinc epoxy polyamide primer. I think the "-F" is the latest version. Very nasty stuff, but it grips like nothing else, withstands a lot of abuse and seriously prevents corrosion. Correctly applied, it is tough to remove, even with new aircraft stripper.

For top coats, Imron is a classic, and current formulas are much easier to get good results with, than the early ones. To get a high gloss, I use materials less than a year old, and really mix them for a long time to help eliminate orange peel finishes.

Sterling has been a bit tricky to get a really high gloss.

AcryGlo is simple to use. JetGlo, in the 3-part formulas, is also easy, but the 4-part metallics, with clearcoat, are tough to match existing paint on the aircraft. I have consulted with 20+year aircraft painters, and they all said they couldn't guarantee a match, and just recoated the entire existing paint. JetGlo's clearcoat does not like being sanded/polished to get a mirror finish.

I follow the manufacturer's direction to the letter, mixing by weight or volume, and get the ratios very precise. Dwell/recoat times, etc are timed, and I get good results. It ain't like painting cars 20 years ago, as some guys seem to think. Their "TLAR" method of mixing (that looks about right) and spraying, ends up with runs, sags, orange peel, flaking, chipping, etc., and I get the job of repainting it.

I have all my own safety equipment, including a fresh air supplied respirator. Many of these materials come with a guarantee that they cause cancer, CNS problems, etc.

HVLP guns are a bit tricky to use, but they have very little overspray, which allows me to paint small jobs in a full hangar with minimal masking.

Insufficient mixing causes orangepeel? First time I ever heard a painter say that, given all the other reasons for it.


Not saying it doesn't cause it, however..

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Those who possess real knowledge are rare.

Those who can set that knowledge into motion in the physical world are rarer still.

The few who possess real knowledge and can set it into motion of their own hands are the rarest of all.

Woo, found a pic of one of the Cobras. Gun finish, no sandings etc

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Those who possess real knowledge are rare.

Those who can set that knowledge into motion in the physical world are rarer still.

The few who possess real knowledge and can set it into motion of their own hands are the rarest of all.

From points taken everyone seems to achieving a certain look.
Appearance is often to focus today but the 1st job of any paint material applied to an aircraft is to protect the metal.
That is really it's primary purpose. Along with that you want to achieve a decent finish.
The treatment of the metal and the primers are the most important part of this process.
I've seen tons of money spent of the topcoats with little effort being given to surface prep or primers.
I've seen rivet heads sanded off, metal thinned to the point of being able to polk a finger through the skin and old corrosion being ignored. Many here have similar experiences.
Aviation paint systems work well and have a series of primers and top coats formulated for aircraft and the environment they operate in. Sherwin Williams and DuPont both have paint systems for aircraft I have used and they seem to hold up well. On our field Keystone Helicopter uses the the Aerospace Imron system to paint the new Sikorsky S-92 and S-76 they finish or produce.
Premium Automotive paints do a decent job but are not produced specific to the aviation industry and do not have the testing done to prove their long term performance in protecting the metals of an aircraft.
Rich

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Rich Palmer

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The old Doug Arnold P63 that was at VNY for years had grey auto primer on it. I touched it one day & a hand shaped piece of primer came away attached to me.... Whoever ended up with that airframe must have wondered if someone had used their hand as a *mask* while spraying the primer on it
No idea who or when it had been primed tho.



PPG have a facility out at Mojave for aerospace paint. No idea who uses it tho.



And who came up with the bright idea of clearcoating warbirds????

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Those who possess real knowledge are rare.

Those who can set that knowledge into motion in the physical world are rarer still.

The few who possess real knowledge and can set it into motion of their own hands are the rarest of all.

Well,

Several things can cause orange peel. Here's one...

I have taken on painting jobs, and been given paint that is 10+ years old. It is thicker than molasses, and I use lots of reducer to thin it out. The problem I have experienced, is that not all the paint will combine with the reducer. I get an initial high gloss, but as all that reducer evaporates out, it slowly reveals lots of tiny spots of un-thinned paint, which looks like minor orange peel. Even leaving the can on an electric paint shaker for an hour doesn't completely eliminate the problem.

The paint has gone bad, but the shop didn't include an extra $500 in their quote for new paint, so I get stuck trying to make it look good. It doesn't look terrible, and for some areas, it would pass, but it doesn't have the mirror finish I want to achieve.