PB-1W Flying Fortress +

[Robbie Stuart]

Updated PB-1w

That is nice!

[aerovin]

Yep, and notice that she still had the top turret ring during her Navy service. It's too bad that got taken out later in life, it would certainly make it easier for the GCW to install that wonderful top turret they have.

S

As late as 1952 the Navy Bureau of Aeronautics required the PB-1W top turret installation but most squadrons did not have the turret actually installed. VX-4, for example, when it became VW-2 in 1952, held five top turrets and five chin turrets in storage for installation if the need arose, but it was also stated that due to a parts shortage the turrets were not actually operable. Inquires were made by the squadron at that time to allow the top turrets to be deleted from the requirements. It would appear, however, that the top turret ring was retained in the PB-1Ws through their Navy service.

As for the additional nose antenna/fixture, I think it was a direction finding antenna (loop type) as early PB-1Ws had the football type AAF antenna installed at that point, and it looks like a loop antenna. Perhaps the clear dome and different shape was to reduce the pilot visibility impact of the antenna. Here is the best photo I have of the installation.



And, by the way, Chris, great artwork on the PB-1W and other variations. I wish I had hooked up with you for illustrations for my B-17 In Blue book. If I ever do a 4th Edition of Final Cut I'd like to explore possibly including color plates of various civil B-17s similar to the one you have here of N66573. Great stuff!

[Second Air Force]

Yep, and notice that she still had the top turret ring during her Navy service. It's too bad that got taken out later in life, it would certainly make it easier for the GCW to install that wonderful top turret they have.

S

As late as 1952 the Navy Bureau of Aeronautics required the PB-1W top turret installation but most squadrons did not have the turret actually installed. VX-4, for example, when it became VW-2 in 1952, held five top turrets and five chin turrets in storage for installation if the need arose, but it was also stated that due to a parts shortage the turrets were not actually operable. Inquires were made by the squadron at that time to allow the top turrets to be deleted from the requirements. It would appear, however, that the top turret ring was retained in the PB-1Ws through their Navy service.

That sounds correct, and the general feeling of those I talked to in Houston was that Aero Service probably took the turret structure out when they had her converted for research work. I was researching putting that stuff back in when I was still involved with TR.

Scott

[Holedigger]

Thanks for the comments. Cool pic. Yup that will help me tweak that little dome as I don't have it quite right yet. I am gathering pics on the Swedish "impressed" airliners now. I would think they didn't work real well in that capacity, but very interesting. Also looking for a local link, the California-Eastern Airline that was headquartered here in St Petersburg.

[aerovin]

Also looking for a local link, the California-Eastern Airline that was headquartered here in St Petersburg.

Perhaps you are referring to California-Atlantic Airways operated by one Owen F. Williams at St. Petersburg, that at one point or another held ownership of the following B-17s: N67974, N66568, N66570, N66571, N66573, and N66574? If you are able to find out anything locally, please share....

[Holedigger]

That's the one! If I can dig up some pics, I will definitely share them. One little nugget I found was the owner had a plane seized for bouncing a check for hangar fees down in Miami. A Bolivian company countersued the city for taking THEIR aircraft! Muddy waters! Must do more research.

[Django]

Chris, have you done profiles for all of the suriving B-17s? Or at least the fliers?

[Holedigger]

Slowly getting there, just a little leery of wasting time on non-historic schemes that may have copyright on them. Already had one AC owner that I did a profile of his AC and sent him a free print say, "Very nice, but I own this name and image"! cease and desist!!!! Here is the pile of forts I have done to date

[Shay]

Already had one AC owner that I did a profile of his AC and sent him a free print say, "Very nice, but I own this name and image"! cease and desist!!!! Here is the pile of forts I have done to date

I don't get it. Was the AC owner replicating a scheme that was depicted on a govt. owned aircraft which was created by someone whilst in the service of the govt.? I know there is some debate on this subject, but I'm on the side of the fence that says: govt. aircraft + govt. employee = public domain. At the least if there is owership of art to be had then it would apply to the original artist from 60 years ago and not the present day Warbird owner who recreates it.

Unless the Warbird owner has done something different to the artwork to make it his own, I can't see how he owns it.

Great artwork btw! Are there any pictures of Texas Raiders during it's former life as a PB-1?

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

[aerovin]

From above, an earlier view of N7227C, circa 1949:

US NAVY PHOTO
DESCRIPTION; A U.S. Navy Boeing PB-1W airborne early warning plane (BuNo 77235) of experimental squadron VX-4 on 25 May 1949.

[Holedigger]

Cool shot of XD-1, might have to do that one too!

On the "Ownership" thing, it was a Non-historic name/logo applied to the nose of said aircraft. I understand, as it is a marketing tool for that aircraft on the airshow circuit. Just irks me a bit as folks are selling Pictures of said aircraft......but an illustration crosses some line? Probably more a case of Whack-a-Mole. I stuck my head up and got whacked! I still have that AC on my list of available, just have scrubbed the name and logo off, back to it's historic ONLY markings.