Piston airliners

[engguy]

If the jets are the greatest, then how come outfits like Everts and Butler in Alaska still use the recips? Its not a very fair deal since Jet x? in airline quantitys is still way less expensive than 100LL in recip quantitys. It's funny how on 100LL.com its showing Jet A as over 4 bucks, but the article in the seattle paper mention jet fuel for I think the 787 as 2 bucks a gallon. Anyone know what the price is for airlines?

[rreis]

Different mission requirements and scenarios demand different tools. I think nobody here says jets are the best for everything but for general airliners profiles they are. If they were not economically more adapted to their needs it would suicidal to use them.

[CAPFlyer]

If the jets are the greatest, then how come outfits like Everts and Butler in Alaska still use the recips? Its not a very fair deal since Jet x? in airline quantitys is still way less expensive than 100LL in recip quantitys. It's funny how on 100LL.com its showing Jet A as over 4 bucks, but the article in the seattle paper mention jet fuel for I think the 787 as 2 bucks a gallon. Anyone know what the price is for airlines?

Well, sorry to burst your bubble, but Everts has just bought/leased a boatload of DC-9s from DHL now that ASTAR/DHL has retired the fleet. They flew the planes because of the mission, but also because the airframes couldn't be replaced for a reasonable cost (as all the DC-9-30s were in use at the time). Now that they're available, guess what - Northern Air Cargo & Everts are jumping all over them and retiring their worn out propliners.

As for fuel price for the airlines - retail has a bunch of markups beyond contract price, so never use it when figuring cost to the airlines, even for 100LL. Airlines buy the fuel on contract either via a broker (like AVFUEL) or directly from the refiner. The Airline Transport Association has a good page on fuel purchasing practices - http://www.airlines.org/economics/energy/fuel+QA.htm

[buffcc]

Inspector,
Yeah, you're right about me being a nut case. I spent 18 years working as a Chief Engineer on ships up there. I did freighters, fishing vessels, and processors, mixed with some tug work at various times. Flying back and forth was part of the job and I enjoyed it all. My favorite part of the flying was landing in a 737 at Dutch Harbor. It's about the same as landing on a carrier without a wire, except there are obstacles just off each end of the runway. Usually the plane is still in a 45 degree bank while on short final, avoiding the mountains while coming in over the water. The runway there is 1000 ft shorter than FAA standard for the 737. If the plane doesn't stop in time it ends up in the Bering Sea. The planes have enhanced performance engines for take-off and landing on the short runways and the pilots are not just average pilots. I was aboard one time when landing and a gust of wind tipped the plane just before touchdown. One wingtip scraped the ground and the pilots accelerated to go around. As we flew around for another approach I could see some shattered fibreglass and the wingtip nav light was flapping around on a foot or two of wire. Pretty exciting stuff at the time. I loved that approach because it was never boring.

[The Inspector]

buffcc,
I lived in Anchorbanks for about a year in the mid 60's, worked for a guy @ Merrill Field named Red Dodge for a while. Red flew ELECTRAS for WESTERN AIRLINES (thanks for that Neil Bergt!) between Anc and Kodiak Island usually as low as he could get away with without squawks from the pax. Had his own odd litlte air force, a G-44, a C-47, a B-26/ONMARK, a T-28A, a couple of TB-25's, and a pink P-51D- the P-51 was painted pink so it could be seen by tankers working fires in the Summer. Lyle Shelton put on one whale of a display in the P-51 for an airshow in ANC in 1967.

I've seen video of what's out the #1 window of a 737 on final going into Dutch and its like falling down an elevator shaft and departures require backtaxiing beyond the green lights to have enough cement to get out without pontoons.

Interesting to hear that EVERTS is buying DC-9's. That explains some of the ex USN/USMC C-9's cycling through ATS (formerly BADWRENCH) here @ KPAE. I also worked for a few months a few years ago for the guy here on KPAE who does/did EVERTS DC-6's, all I will say is A) he was a learning experience B) the guy knows DC-6's, and C) not too many mechanics return for a second overhaul with this individual.

[CAPFlyer]

According to Aerotransport, Everts Air Cargo has N904AX and N930AX flying with N932AX "on order" (i.e. awaiting depreservation and delivery). I've heard that they may get 3 more.