Grumman F8F Bearcat---Mega-Thread

[Merlin540]

All the pics, all the manuals and all the plans are now sadly removed by me from this thread-no malice was ever intended here.

I'm just a tired old man with a love of old planes-that's all.

All the old plans, any pics-new or old, and all tech manuals and vids will now go to the grave with me.

I don't have the time, the resources, nor the money to chase down every single publicly-posted document for some type of pedigree.

Sorry..................all the best.

Last edited by Merlin540 on Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

[bdk]

Uh oh! I was hoping to see engineering drawings, not 3-views and sketches copied from Squadron/Signal books!

Last edited by bdk on Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Chris]

I just finished downloading. This is great stuff Merlin. Really appreciate you taking the time to make all of this available to us.

[P51Mstg]

Merlin....

I may ruffle some feathers here, but a lot of those photos are not public domain. I'd say well over 1/2 are clearly marked with copyrights (which exceed the requirements from the Copyright Office)......

If you have permission of those copyright holders to redistribute their photos, fine. If not, you might be better off leaving them them out.

Best wishes.

Mark H

[Merlin540]

Merlin....

I may ruffle some feathers here, but a lot of those photos are not public domain. I'd say well over 1/2 are clearly marked with copyrights (which exceed the requirements from the Copyright Office)......

If you have permission of those copyright holders to redistribute their photos, fine. If not, you might be better off leaving them them out.

Best wishes.

Mark H

Well, let's not get too ruffled, then. I will try to explain the 'copyright' process.
ALL of those pics were from sites like Airliners.net or other public sites. Many are watermarked 'copyright' on those sights-and are posted by the 'copyrighters' themselves. NONE of them were illicitly appropriated. They are often posted in smaller, free 'sample' sizes-in the hopes that you may want to purchase larger, full-size images from some of these folks. That's what a lot of the pics are.

As a person who indeed has actually held many legitimate copyrights and some trademarks for many years, I will tell you that it takes a lot more than writing 'copyright' and/or a date across something-to make it actually and truly copyrighted.

Anybody and his brother that just scrawls 'copyright' across anything and everything that they touch is NOT a copyright holder- without doing all the required federal paperwork necessary to indeed hold a legitimate copyright. It's a somewhat ponderous process that can take many months and $$$$. Most average people print 'copyright' on something-simply because the don't want to see 10,000 Chinese posters of their photo being sold all over the internet. Trouble with that is, the Chinese (and most other of the biggest offenders) DO NOT SUBSCRIBE to any international copyright conventions at all.

BTW- any unclassified pictures taken by the U.S. Government are ALREADY in the public (taxpayers') domain. And even the classified pics are still indeed the property of the American people-and not some government clerk or 'alphabet' agency. You just need a security clearance to see that stuff.

Furthermore, I am not making any money off of ANY this stuff whatsoever. It's just a pure labor of love. That's all.

As a matter of fact- it costs me my valuable time, my money and my resources to upload this silly old stuff that I have collected over the years and then post it here- just so a few people with irrational fetishes for the old warbirds (like myself) can download it and derive some pleasure from seeing it.
P.S.
I would also expect that if anyone has any further concerns, they are welcome to delete any and all of the files that they download.

All the best- Merlin 540

[P51Mstg]

Merlin. I disagree. I'm a photographer and a retired lawyer. I do understand copyright as well as registration. When you click the shutter and create an image you have a copyright. If you choose to register it that is a seperate issue. Govt works are not copyrighted.

If someone chooses to post on airliners. That doesn't relinquish any rights he holds to the image. Making money off it or the size/quality is not an issue and doesn't matter

I know Victor Archer from Reno last year. I also have chatted with Curtis Fowles of Mustangs Mustangs. I'm sure they would want you to ask their permission to use their images. I know I would.

I believe this discussion has been held here before. I see it on photographers sites all the time. You may wish to look at Carolyn Wright's book. Which can be found at her site at http://www.photoattorney.com.

For all I know the original poster may have permission. But considering the variety of copyright holders. I would sort of doubt it

Mark H
from my iPhone

[Ztex]

We have been down this road before and we don't need to rehash it again.
Some of these photos are not "public domain". Just because they are shown in a public place they are not free to use as one sees fit.

Generally accepted guidelines here on WIX ... please refrain from simply posting photos that are not your own...unless they are for illustrative purposes and you provide a link to the site they were taken from and/or leave the water mark/name on the photo. If the photographer give you permission state that...if they ask for it to be removed please do it.

Thanks.

[Mike]

Anybody and his brother that just scrawls 'copyright' across anything and everything that they touch is NOT a copyright holder- without doing all the required federal paperwork necessary to indeed hold a legitimate copyright. It's a somewhat ponderous process that can take many months and $$$$.

That statement is absolutely, completely and utterly untrue in almost every way

Furthermore, I am not making any money off of ANY this stuff whatsoever. It's just a pure labor of love. That's all.

As a matter of fact- it costs me my valuable time, my money and my resources to upload this silly old stuff that I have collected over the years and then post it here

Totally irrelevant to the breach of copyright being committed here. I suggest you go away and research what 'public domain' actually means before claiming it for these copyright photographs that you are distributing.

[Tim Adams]

This is amazing. This is the kind of attitude I expect from young punks who think just because it's on the internet, it's fair use. As said before, once I fire that shutter, it's mine, I don't need to fill out paper work. Going through the photos, I have found the following photogs who I think are going to be mighty upset.
Rick Pisio
Wayne Sagar
Victor Archer
David Ledniger
Mark Johnston
Curtis Fowles
Hey what do you know, my shot is in there too, get it the hell out of your zip file!!!
Scott Germain

There are many I left out, but I actually know all these guys. I recognize a bunch of names though.
You can kindly remove this shot, it's mine and if anybody wants it, they can get it from me!!!

[Neal Nurmi]

Merlin, I respect what you're trying to do, and I realise how much work you've put into this, but you are VERY wrong in your understanding of copyright law, and I'd advise you to pull and revise your offering here immediately. Pull all copyrighted images now, or you could have real problems. The law on this sort of theft is very clear. I've been taking, selling and publishing aviation photographs for nearly forty years. I've spent many tens of thousands of dollars and many thousands of hours doing what I do. I spent the money, I invested the hours, and the results are very clearly my property.

Legally and morally I have the right to decide when, where, and how my images are used. Putting something on the web for people to enjoy is something I like doing, but if many more of my photos are stolen and used for other purposes that's the end of posting pictures for me...

[Scotty G]

Well, here are my two cents, Merlin540.

You've stolen my images without my consent for use or consent for distribution. I own the copyrights on my images and any derivative works created from my images or any likeness of my images.

You are in breach of copyright. Don't even attempt to argue.

Many of the photographers from which you've stolen photos try to make a LIVING from their images. By freely distributing them, you destroy any new content possibilities from other publishing avenues. You are materially damaging people and their lives.

I'll admit I don't make my living from photography, but I hold my images close and do make beer money off of them. I also spend a lot of money on camera gear, gas money for camera and subject aircraft, and lunch/dinner/beer for the pilots. All so jerks like you can enjoy the images and somehow see where you can lay some sort of claim to them.

Then you come skipping along and claim you have some sort of right to copy and distribute MY photos? Let alone anybody else's?

Screw the courts, Merlin540... I'll take care of this the Tiger Destefani way when I meet you.

I suggest any person with photos or videos in the files Merlin540 is trying to distribute contact RapidShare with the file names and tell them their user is in direct violation of copyright law. We'll see how long his account lasts...

[vg-photo]

I was alerted to this thread by a fellow photographer that also had photos lifted.

Some of us have worked very hard, for a LONG time to get the images we have and it has been a labor of love. But like any photographer or artist, I want my work o be displayed in the best possible light/venue. Don't cheapen the hard work that these photographers have done by creating a zip file on rapidshare. NOT COOL! Doing that without the copyright owner's permission is illegal and you don' know squat about copyright laws. Besides that, if you had bothered to ask, you might find that some of those images have indeed gone through government registration.

So you have put so much time collecting these from the internet? Boo-flipping-whoo. Have you spent thousands of dollars on gear, travel expenses, gas (car and aviation), phone bills and a host of other things to get this shot? Have you stood on the tarmac freezing your azz off waiting for the right light, angle, etc? Have you driven 300 miles to get to a shoot and have the rain spoil it and have to reschedule? Have you invested in safety gear like helmets, headsets, flight suits, parachutes or other safety gear? If not, your "time collecting these" is not going to get any sympathy from those that answer yes to any one or more of the above questions.

When you ask nicely and explain what you want to do with an image, a lot of people will offer to help. When you thoughtlessly steal (YES, steal) the images without asking permission, you a running afoul of the law. People don't take kindly to that, myself included.

So for stealing my images and freely distributing them,

Last edited by vg-photo on Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

[vg-photo]

And one more thing, your photos are gone. You see, Rapidshare takes copyright violations seriously. So should you.

Your link now says:

The page at http://rapidshare.com says:
This file is copyrighted and may not be distributed without permission of the copyright holder. We will direct you to RapidMovies, where you can buy upcoming games and movies legally online.

[Merlin540]

My sincere apologies to anyone who feels that any pics were incorrectly used whatsoever.
It was not maliciously intended at all.

Anyhow, just an irrational love of old warbirds was the sole motivation here, fellas.
If no one can ever see them, then no one will ever love them.

All the best..................

[Merlin540]

Uh oh! I was hoping to see engineering drawings, not 3-views and sketches copied from Squadron/Signal books!

Sorry................