Warbird Information Exchange

When I was just a kid (1960's-1970's) I found out that my best friends dad was a Top gunner/flight engineer on B-17's in England during WWII.He became one of my biggest heroes and he and I would talk for hours about his experiences during the war.His family were oblivious about what he accomplished and nothing that I tried to tell them about what a great hero he was had any effect on them.He was in the 306th bomber group(squadron?) this is the group that the story of "12 O Clock High" was reported to be based upon.The first amazing thing that that he told me was that he was on active duty from 1942 to 1945.Anyone who knows what the attrition rates were during this time will realize how incredible this fact is.He also told me a story that really blew my mind.You must realize that this man was a very humble man and a person who would not lie nor brag to glorify his past.He told me that after the war, he was based in Scotland flying Search and Rescue B29's.He said that the base was run by a General who was very erratic and out of control.He said that One of the planes had problems with either the engine or one of the propellers.He told me that he filed whatever papers that had to be filed to ground the plane he filed.He said that the next day the General in charge ignored his grounding of the B-29 and ordered them to fly.He said that while flying their mission over the ocean one of the props ran away,threw a blade that tore into the fuselage and almost caused them to crash.He told me that when they landed, he went to the Generals office and Punched him out.He then said that they threw him in the Brig where he sat for approx. 2 weeks.He then told me that they released him, the reasion being that the General in Question was removed on a section 8 (mental)I have no doubts that my friend was not lying to me.I have never heard of someone punching out a General and coming out scott free.Can anyone confirm or deny this claim?
P.S.God bless this generation of men,they're going fast and wont be with us much longer.
they are my heroes and should be yours too.

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"WHAT ME WORRY?"

Can you share a name?

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James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com

I wouldn't punch him out. I'd kick him in the nutsack!

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Magister Aviation
It's all in my book

Speaking of "Section 8", I've heard that there's really no such thing. As far as mental incompetency is concerned that is. Anybody want to educate me? I can take it. I was wrong once before. I remember it well...it was 1953.

Mudge the educable

No hurry...I won't be back on here until next Thursday. We're off to Bastogne in 7 hrs & 39 mins.

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Land of the free because of the brave

As in Bastogne, Belgium?

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Magister Aviation
It's all in my book

Sounds interesting !

Here ya go Mudge. Never thought about it until you mentioned. Thanks for making me learn something new.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_8_(military)

Shay
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Semper Fortis

As related in the book A DAWN LIKE THUNDER, on at least two occasions men of Torpedo Squadron Eight drew their sidearms in an attempt to shoot Torpedo Squadron Eight's commanding officer Swede Larsen. Both time the offenders were tackled by their squadron mates. The squadron mates were not trying to save the CO, they were attempting to save their squadron mate from a murder rap. Neither man was court martialed. Both times the incident was hushed up, apparently to thwart any bad publicity that a fragging court martial might generate (straight out of CATCH-22). According to the book I read, Swede Larsen was a sadistic cruel man (and a self admitted anti semite) who thought nothing of humiliating the men under his command. So take it from there. In fact, some men cancelled plans to attend a T-8 Reunion when they discovered that Larsen was planning on being there. They still hated him over 50 years later.

Agent86,

Army AF men go to the Stockade, not the Brig, which is a Navy term for a ship board jail.
So if the old timer told you he was put in the brig for punching an AF general, some thing don't smell right.

TonyM.

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"Welcome back Mr. Lasky."

Klinger never did get that section 8!

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Director

TonyM,
I might cut him some slack on that whole brig/stockade thing. In Robin Old's book he talks about modifying some launcher rails for AIM-9's and told his Sergeant Major from maintenance to do the modifications. SgtMaj is an Army rank of course. In Viet Nam era Air Force they were Chief Master Sergeants.

In Bob Hope's great book he talks about visiting troops during the Pacific campaign by jumping on C-130's from island to island until he got to Australia. And of course the C-130 was still a solid 10 years from existing.

I also was reviewing some very rare color footage of the airdrop at Corregidor with the pilot who dropped the Marines there. A spot of footage came up of them crawling around on a captured Oscar. He told me after Corregidor, he was transfered to Air Intelligence and they came across this Zero. I politely corrected him that it was an Oscar. He insisted it was a Zero. Then I had to pull out two books on the subject. In short order he was saying "Well I'll be! It is an Oscar and all these years I thought it was a Zero!" This coming from a man whose job was to evaluate captured Japanese equipment......65 years ago.

There are many stories about guys who were Fighter pilots, tail gunners or FE's whose sons, years later, learn all about the battles their fathers were in. The fathers, who were actually there, know much less about the battle than their sons because their story is of their own small corner of the battle and not the big picture. When asked about a certain event the answer is usually "Hell, I don't know. I was diving towards the ground with three German fighters on my tail!"

I got over 4500 hours as a FE on C-130's and have a few hard to believe stories that are true. Like the time we hit a turkey vulture right by the pilots kick window. The bird bounced out and hit #2 engine. Half the bird went in the intake and the rest of the bird hit the fuselage right behind the left rear wheel. One bird hit the plane 3 times. Hard to believe? It was in 1995 at Pope AFB while on TDY there doing joint exercises with the Army. The tail number is 74-2065 based at Dyess AFB and you can still see the crease on the fuselage. The pilot, a young Captain at the time, is now a full bird Colonel in command of the 317th Airlift Group. Which coincidentally is the same group that the pilot flying at Corregidor was from! 317th TCG the "Jungle Skippers".

Tied that story up nicely.

I always cut these guys slack on their stories. The truth is probably that he passed the General up in the chow hall and mumbled to his buddy that when he gets out he is going to punch that SOB right in the mouth. The story morphed just a bit over the years. I also do not take anything away from the guys who flew those missions over freezing seas all day/night long or who worked on those planes in those conditions.

Maybe I should cut back on my caffeine intake this early in the morning. What do you think?

Kel

Jack Cook might remember as I think it was his story that P-40 or Hellcat? Not sure pilot in the Pacific punched out his CO. Nothing was ever said about it.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Director

Hurk Kel,

Yeah, I know. Some guys have bad memories or mis-remember stuff, or even purposely use the wrong word because that is how he always said it. That kind of thing happens and I have interviewed enough WWII vets to have first hand knowledge of it. So, lots of slack has been cut in the past.

I even had a guy get in touch with me so he could determine the correct date that he got into a plane crash during WWII--the guy could not remember the exact date. I figured it out. Turns out he had been in more than one.

But, on the other hand, I have caught some BS pushers. Yes, just because a guy reaches his late eighties don't mean he's not capable of some major Bravo Sierra. This kind of thing happens too. Recently, I discovered a bad apple and it was disappointing. I mean, you just cant come out and call the guy a liar, even if he is one. But that kind of BS is an insult to all who are legit.

TonyM

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"Welcome back Mr. Lasky."

On a related note: last year I had my suspicions about the story of a WWII vet that appeared on the front page of a local paper here in the Chicago area.
The guy made all kinds of claims, some of them "unbelievable". Well, I called the reporter who wrote the story in the paper about this guy (who I will not name here). Well, I was not alone, the reporter told me that others had called in and had the same questions. And the reporter had asked the right questions too when he did the original interview, but the old guy insisted he was on the up and up. Well, that story does not show up in the paper's on-line archives. I have access to some of the right stuff concerning the guy's wartime exploits. Turns out he told the truth (or real close to it) about most of the items he talked about in the article. But we can't prove, or disprove, the incredibly fantastic aspects of his story. I was thinking of providing a link, but as I stated above, the story has been yanked off the paper's web site. That says quite a bit to me.

TonyM.

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"Welcome back Mr. Lasky."

67th Air Rescue Squadron
Constituted 10 Oct 1952, Sculthorpe RAF Station, England

Activated 14 Nov 1952, Prestwick, Scotland

Part of 9th Air Rescue Group, attached to Third Air Force

Did fly SB-29's, ( 1952 - 1956 ) among other craft, so at least this much checks out.
Somebody might try and find a history of the 67th during that time and see is any CO was relieved under other-than-normal circumstances.

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SHAEF1944
American Veterans Museum

TonyM,
You are totally right in calling those people out. The wall of shame for guys claiming to be SEALS and Rangers, etc is the right thing to do. Maybe I could have used the "cut slack" statement a little better. I know what you meant about just because the guy is old doesn't mean he isn't full of it...

Wasn't there some SSgt that just got called out for being a Col in the AF? That stuff is truly despicable.

I guess my story was really to add a bit to the dialog and not meant for you directly. Keep doing what you are doing. The truth always seems to rise to the top.

Kel