Thu Jul 28, 2005 5:14 pm
As I'm sure Randy can attest, egress is a whole different ball game in modern aircraft than in WWII era planes.
From interviewing former bomber crew members it could be a real nightmare to get out of a B-24/B-17/B-29 when it was hit and going down. The forces acting on a dying bird could really easily trap an otherwise fully capable individual in a desperate situation.
I could be remembering wrong but in the book "Distant Prayer" a B-17 crew member recounts deciding that he was a goner because he was pinned by rotating/twisting G-forces then was blown free and able to open his chute.
Nothing like a modern ejection seat.
Tom P.
From interviewing former bomber crew members it could be a real nightmare to get out of a B-24/B-17/B-29 when it was hit and going down. The forces acting on a dying bird could really easily trap an otherwise fully capable individual in a desperate situation.
I could be remembering wrong but in the book "Distant Prayer" a B-17 crew member recounts deciding that he was a goner because he was pinned by rotating/twisting G-forces then was blown free and able to open his chute.
Nothing like a modern ejection seat.
Tom P.
Thu Jul 28, 2005 6:35 pm
Randy Haskin wrote:JohnH wrote:I've been told, if the pilot is slumped over...there's no way out...from what I remember from my one ride you can't reach the handle from the back anyway right?
Yes, that was my point exactly. If the front seater isn't able to open or jett the canopy, then there's no way for the back seater to get out anyway.
.
Thanks.....I remember having this discussion many times.
John
Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:20 pm
Boy, it's amazing what part of a post people will latch onto, huh? What I meant was I would go over EVERYTHING I needed to know about bailing out of whatever warbird I was in, if there were chutes available. And I'm only referring to things within my control, as you're right that if the canopy was shut in a P-51 and the pilot conked out, I was along for the ride. What I meant by all this was hardly anyone else I know would even bother to ask any questions period. Many folks called me paranoid, saying I didn't need to know such stuff. But having an "escape plan" has saved my life at least once, so I know things CAN go wrong, and if you're not thinking ahead and ready for them, you can die horribly.Randy Haskin wrote:I'm not really seeing how someone in the back seat in that situation would have been able to get out of it...p51 wrote:,,,and people thought I was nuts to ask every question I could about how to bail from a P-51 whenever I rode in one!
Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:18 am
I am involved with the operation of a P51 in the UK, whenever a new person flies in the aircraft we ensure that the passenger is fully briefed on what to do in an emergency. I'm sure this would be the case with any other responsible operator.
I know nothing of this accident other than what I have read here but it doesn't sound as though bailing out was an option.
I know nothing of this accident other than what I have read here but it doesn't sound as though bailing out was an option.
Fri Jul 29, 2005 10:15 am
Looks like this incident finally made the Airventure news:bdk wrote:Hmmm... The Airventure site mentions an RV crash which resulted in minor injuries, but nothing about the fatal Mustang crash...
http://www.airventure.org/2005/thurjuly28/warbird_pilot.html
Sat Jul 30, 2005 11:01 am
Very Sad indeed,
A loss for us all. My heartfelt condolences to the family and friends of the pilot.
Respectfully,
Paul
A loss for us all. My heartfelt condolences to the family and friends of the pilot.
Respectfully,
Paul
Sat Jul 30, 2005 2:35 pm
Just got back from the funeral. What a site it was. Had a formation of 4 T-6's that did 3 passes. Then we had 8 P-51's doing a low pass and missing man formation. Thanks Vlado, Tony, Reg, Terry, Rick and the others involved in the formations. It meant a lot to everyone on the ground, especially the family.
Mon Aug 01, 2005 12:16 am
it's like a never ending obituary in 2005!!! enough already!!! the rash of crashes (pardon the poetry) is of terrible frequency!!
Mon Aug 01, 2005 4:30 am
P-51D wrote:Just got back from the funeral. What a site it was. Had a formation of 4 T-6's that did 3 passes. Then we had 8 P-51's doing a low pass and missing man formation. Thanks Vlado, Tony, Reg, Terry, Rick and the others involved in the formations. It meant a lot to everyone on the ground, especially the family.
Sounds like a magnificent, fitting tribute.
Are there any photos of the flyby?
Mon Aug 01, 2005 8:17 am
,,,and people thought I was nuts to ask every question I could about how to bail from a P-51 whenever I rode in one![/quote]
Nuts? Not hardly! Anybody who gets in any airplane should have a plan, especially a Warbird. Your attitude shows you have a healthy respect for your life! I flew with Dick to many air shows and I can tell you first hand that there was always a safety briefing before we got in the airplane. It did not matter how many times I had flown with him, the briefing was always the same. Egress from the backseat in the event of a pilot medical? Dick had a stick with a hook on it. He said, "Use it to hit me in the head if I fall asleep. If I don't wake up, use it to pull the canopy release and get out...cause I'm probably not sleeping!"
Dick was a hell of a man and will be sorely missed by anybody who knew him.
John
Nuts? Not hardly! Anybody who gets in any airplane should have a plan, especially a Warbird. Your attitude shows you have a healthy respect for your life! I flew with Dick to many air shows and I can tell you first hand that there was always a safety briefing before we got in the airplane. It did not matter how many times I had flown with him, the briefing was always the same. Egress from the backseat in the event of a pilot medical? Dick had a stick with a hook on it. He said, "Use it to hit me in the head if I fall asleep. If I don't wake up, use it to pull the canopy release and get out...cause I'm probably not sleeping!"
Dick was a hell of a man and will be sorely missed by anybody who knew him.
John
Mon Aug 01, 2005 12:48 pm
Here is my first attempt at posting pictures.
Mon Aug 01, 2005 1:14 pm
Thanks for posting the photos. It looks to have been a fitting tribute to super guy. I wish I could have made the service but did not find out until 8:30am Saturday morning when I returned home from Oshkosh that the funeral was to be that morning. Roger and I had both planned to attend.
It looks like you were standing on the apron of Dicks hangar when you shot a few of your pix.
John
It looks like you were standing on the apron of Dicks hangar when you shot a few of your pix.
John
Mon Aug 01, 2005 1:22 pm
Yes, I was standing on the roof of Dicks hangar.
Mon Aug 01, 2005 8:48 pm
i got my 1st warbird ride a few years ago at the gathering of corsairs event in mt. comfort indiana...... i've written a few articles for air classics magazine, hence i know the editor micheal o'leary. we met up, & i wangled a ride on their b-25 for an aerial shoot with jim read & his corsair. i was in the top dorsal turret for the flight & got great pics x 10. any way.... i was with my best friend for the event..... he asked me for my car keys as i drove from ohio. i asked why??? he said if i crashed in challenge publication's b-25 he'd need a way home. he was dead serious in asking too. my buddy was the big kahunah at cleveland center faa, for 30 years. plotted all the airspace for indians / browns games etc, cleveland airshow, etc, if george dubya was coming to town etc, he plotted th airspace with the secret service. he was on duty on 9/11 with the scare over cleveland too. he was within 2 weeks retirement when the disaster occurred. they revoked his retirement for 1 year due to the emergency. any way... i'm just trying to drive the point home that he knew what he was talking about. i laughed, handed over my keys, & had the ride of my life. thankfully & obviously i'm still here, but only an air traffic controller could have that kind of foresight. best, tom