Clandestine air ops Southern New Mexico??

[steve dickey]

Yesterday my dad saw a quartet of unmarked planes of what he thought were 3 T-34's and one Piper twin. Everything was turbine powered. The twin was a creme color and the T-34's, two were dark gray in color while the third was black with what looked like drop tanks on all the wings. The twin (Piper?Sounds like from his description it is a Cheyenne) had a bulge on the belly.
He lives in southern New Mexico and they came out of the south, flew north for some distance(almost out of binocular range)then came back in the same direction and disappeared from sight.
Could these be Customs A/C? DEA?

[John Kerr]

The single engine types were most likely PC-12 aircraft, or as the USAF Special Operations Squadron based at Cannon AFB, NM calls them U-28A. Yes, some of them carry N numbers and fly in civil paint, others in a flat gunship gray paint.

[Clifford Bossie]

There is usually something going on in the MOAs in Southern NM. Yesterday I watched an airplane flying race tracks over White Sands Missile Range. That went on for about an hour during the morning. From that I suspect that there was some sort of weapon test out of Holloman AFB or at WSMR itself.

Like John mentioned, the PC-12/U-28 aircraft seem like they could be the single engine types you saw. Based at Cannon they are sometimes operated out of Roswell, as well as other military bases in area.

[lvkeith83]

The T-34 types seen were Beech/ Raytheon T-6B & AT-6B Texan 2's operating out of Cannon AFB

[Randy Haskin]

What makes you think they're 'clandestine'?

[Obergrafeter]

Some of them carry N nunbers, but..........................ever try to look those numbers up on the FAA web site. Probably don't exist. That should give the TSA gestapo, fondlers something to look into. A non-existant C130 unloaded a pick up at our field with no license plate , inspection, are anything else. When asked about it they just shrugged their heads and drove off into the sunset. Guess they got a free get out of jail card.

[Pogmusic]

Maybe Southern Air Transport lives on?!?!?!

[tinbender2]

There are probably a dozen govt agencies using modified aircraft for all kinds of missions, out of Kirtland AFB in Albuquerque, NM. Plus numerous civilian companies doing the same.

Some civilian aircraft have ghost gray camo and N numbers in a slightly lighter gray. It is impossible to read the number when the aircraft is parked, if you're more than 200 feet away.

I've seen the same one-of-a-kind Metroliner wearing an N number, later wearing only USAF insignia, then revert back to an N number.

If you look hard at some of the "normal" aircraft parked in ABQ, you'll see blacked out windows, sensor balls in retractable housings, unusual radars, tons of unusual antennas, etc. Twin Otters, Citations, Dash-7s, Caravans, King Airs, Metroliners, etc.

Before 9-11, it was mainly the military, U.S.Customs and the Dept of State with these type aircraft. After 9-11, EVERYONE with a half-baked idea for homeland security, could get a few million to pursue it. We had to drag a trashed C-172 off the runway after engine failure on landing. It had a million dollar FLIR ball hanging off the left wing.
Having two National Laboratories in the state (one at Kirtland AFB), that are developing hundreds of security projects, has really fueled the development of these aircraft.

I helped modify a King Air as a drone controller. The design required minimum exterior modifications to maintain the stock factory appearance. The interior was gutted and starwars-type operator stations installed. The exterior sensors were housed in a 14ft long removable pod. A 5 million dollar aircraft, with 10+ million in equipment.

People get real upset real fast, if you ask questions or show an interest in their aircraft. Taking photos usually gets a quick police response. Some operators take great efforts to keep their aircraft under wraps. They require signed contracts with FBOs to always have the aircraft hangared within 20 minutes of shutdown, and some operate only at night.

I stopped showing an interest in these aircraft after two encounters with berserk pilots, including one who threatened to have me "disappear". I just laughed, which enraged him even more.

[Ztex]

LOL Tinbender....Yeah I had a visit with an AP, a guy in a black jump suit and an airport "official" after snapping a photo of a Metroliner here in Fort Worth...only to come home and find pics of it on-line at an Airshow.

See the public parking and the public overpass? ...real "clandestine" !


I saw a Cessna 210 with a pod on the wing, circling town for at least an hour the other day...took a photo...blew up the image to see the N-number...found it was registered to the FBI.

All kinds of "Homeland Security" and other stuff at the local airports in the past few years...



Look closely at the hard point on the wing here....

[tinbender2]

Notice where they put the N number on the Metro. It is deliberately hidden from view by the horizontal stab and the bulbous rear fuselage. It is probably also just one large decal, easily removed when desired.

The caravan looks like it has adhesive plastic sheet covering up an N number just aft of the windows.

There have been some really weird, massively modified civilian aircraft operating out of KAFB. They stay on the military side of the field and always seem to use the most remote runway. Even a 600mm lens doesn't get much detail.

[Randy Haskin]

Look closely at the hard point on the wing here....

That's one of the Caravans for the Iraqi Air Force. If not one that actually went to Iraq, then one of the demonstration/test aircraft for that contract.

[CraigQ]

LOL Tinbender....Yeah I had a visit with an AP, a guy in a black jump suit and an airport "official" after snapping a photo of a Metroliner here in Fort Worth...only to come home and find pics of it on-line at an Airshow.

See the public parking and the public overpass? ...real "clandestine" !

Maybe the guy was embarrassed about having to fly a Metro?

[Ken]

Sure, there are aircraft who don't want to advertise their identity or capabilities, but if they were that big of a deal, they wouldn't be operating from a location where they could be seen/photographed. An exception might be something like the 1959 emergency landing of a U-2 in Cortez, CO.

[wendovertom]

Randy - that Caravan must be one of the planes the 521st Air Expd advisors train with then? I have a air show friend at Randolph that works over there quite a bit.

Tom P.

[Enemy Ace]

Pogmusic,
southern air is still in business, they fly 747's into afghanistan all the time.