BAD NEWS FOR F8F 204

51fixer · **Posted:** Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:10 pm

warbird1 wrote:

airnutz wrote:

Prop tips curled forwards indicates the engine was running when they struck the ground...going forward.

If that's the case then why do the following pictures show the prop tips curling backwards:

If the engine isn't producing power, ie broke or at idle, it will bend back.
Some times they might start bending forward but power can be pulled off at a point and forward motion can then bend them back.
Also depends how hard they hit. It could be a normal descent or a slam into the ground the P-51 plowing for the farmer.

Also prop types can act differently based on the type of blade.
The photos you posted are Ham Std with solid alum blade.
The Bearcat has a hollow steel blade.

51fixer · **Posted:** Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:20 pm

warbird1 wrote:

51fixer wrote:

Folks,
I suggest we give this one a rest.
We all have accidents. We all make mistakes.
Aircraft will get repaired. This isn't really a big deal except we are making it one.
Prop tips can curl fwd if the engine is under power.
My bet is it got blown up on its nose by another bigger aircraft. Just my opinion.
Stuff happens and I'm glad no one got hurt and the aircraft won't require much to repair in the scheme of things.
Now move along.
Nothing to see her.
If you need something to look at go review the Bald Eagle thread from page 1 to the last page. Some mistakes shown there (Is it normal for the mustang to deposit gals of oil when it parks?) along with verbal barbs being thrown (Also nerf darts being shot).

I haven't heard anyone in this thread point fingers, lay blame or fault anyone for an accident. If I missed it, please let me know. Everyone makes mistakes, myself included. I've had several times where I almost caused substantial damage to an aircraft, but somehow managed to escape injury or equipment damage. The whole point of this thread is that there appears to be conflicting information. The only thing everyone wants is the truth - that's all. It appears that there is some mis- or dis- information out there. If the truth would just come out, everybody would let this rest, we would all go " sorry to hear that, glad the pilot is o.k., and wish for speedy repairs", then move on. Because it appears that someone has an agenda (no, Ryan S. I am not talking about you), people are going to "call them on it".

The whole point of this thread is to get accurate information - nothing else! No blaming or finger-pointing whatsoever, except to the people who have an agenda here.

We won't get accurate info unless the involved parties give it.
It hasn't happened here and I don't think they will use WIX to answer our questions.
There is a point where we look like bystanders standing on the curb starring at a wreck.
I think this thread have gone past the point of looking worse than the people we are thinking are looking bad.
With time some accurate info will come out.
Seemingly arguing about prop tip curling and disinformation doesn't make this a desirable place to be.

flyingsailor · **Posted:** Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:39 pm

from FAA site
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 58204 Make/Model: EXP Description: GRUMMAN F8F01
Date: 02/11/2011 Time: 1903

Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor

LOCATION
City: SAN ANTONIO State: TX Country: US

DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAXI, WENT ONTO ITS NOSE, SAN ANTONIO, TX

INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:

WEATHER: 1905Z 00000 10SM CLR A3032

OTHER DATA
Activity: Pleasure Phase: Taxi Operation: OTHER

FAA FSDO: SAN ANTONIO, TX (SW17) Entry date: 02/14/2011

drivesa3 · **Joined:** Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:55 pm **Posts:** 6

51fixer wrote:

warbird1 wrote:

51fixer wrote:

Folks,
I suggest we give this one a rest.
We all have accidents. We all make mistakes.
Aircraft will get repaired. This isn't really a big deal except we are making it one.
Prop tips can curl fwd if the engine is under power.
My bet is it got blown up on its nose by another bigger aircraft. Just my opinion.
Stuff happens and I'm glad no one got hurt and the aircraft won't require much to repair in the scheme of things.
Now move along.
Nothing to see her.
If you need something to look at go review the Bald Eagle thread from page 1 to the last page. Some mistakes shown there (Is it normal for the mustang to deposit gals of oil when it parks?) along with verbal barbs being thrown (Also nerf darts being shot).

I haven't heard anyone in this thread point fingers, lay blame or fault anyone for an accident. If I missed it, please let me know. Everyone makes mistakes, myself included. I've had several times where I almost caused substantial damage to an aircraft, but somehow managed to escape injury or equipment damage. The whole point of this thread is that there appears to be conflicting information. The only thing everyone wants is the truth - that's all. It appears that there is some mis- or dis- information out there. If the truth would just come out, everybody would let this rest, we would all go " sorry to hear that, glad the pilot is o.k., and wish for speedy repairs", then move on. Because it appears that someone has an agenda (no, Ryan S. I am not talking about you), people are going to "call them on it".

The whole point of this thread is to get accurate information - nothing else! No blaming or finger-pointing whatsoever, except to the people who have an agenda here.

We won't get accurate info unless the involved parties give it.
It hasn't happened here and I don't think they will use WIX to answer our questions.
There is a point where we look like bystanders standing on the curb starring at a wreck.
I think this thread have gone past the point of looking worse than the people we are thinking are looking bad.
With time some accurate info will come out.
Seemingly arguing about prop tip curling and disinformation doesn't make this a desirable place to be.

Wow four days, 4000+ views, 72 posts and you finally get the point!
None of you were there, none of you saw what happened, yet everyone of you have an opinion.
Did you think about asking, What happened? No, you all assumed. So, naturally we had to spice it up, I made one post, made no statements about aircraft condition or well being, and you all turn on one another like rabid dogs!
PRICELESS...
there are those of you on the forum that know us, pick up the phone, ask " hey what happened, glad you are ok?"
I guarantee you would be better off...

Speedy · **Posted:** Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:21 pm

51fixer wrote:

[If the engine isn't producing power, ie broke or at idle, it will bend back.
Some times they might start bending forward but power can be pulled off at a point and forward motion can then bend them back.

Wanna really throw the kiddies for a loop? Take a look at the photos of when Don Whittington bellied in the Griffon-powered "Precious Metal" at Reno in '88.....blades bent forward, blades bent backwards, blades twisted sideways....no rhyme or reason to it. Prop overspeed, but not pulling any load because they were at flat pitch.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/12609305@N08/4410323756/

the330thbg · **Joined:** Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:06 pm **Posts:** 2713

warbird1 wrote:

51fixer wrote:

Folks,
I suggest we give this one a rest.
We all have accidents. We all make mistakes.
Aircraft will get repaired. This isn't really a big deal except we are making it one.
Prop tips can curl fwd if the engine is under power.
My bet is it got blown up on its nose by another bigger aircraft. Just my opinion.
Stuff happens and I'm glad no one got hurt and the aircraft won't require much to repair in the scheme of things.
Now move along.
Nothing to see her.
If you need something to look at go review the Bald Eagle thread from page 1 to the last page. Some mistakes shown there (Is it normal for the mustang to deposit gals of oil when it parks?) along with verbal barbs being thrown (Also nerf darts being shot).

I haven't heard anyone in this thread point fingers, lay blame or fault anyone for an accident. If I missed it, please let me know. Everyone makes mistakes, myself included. I've had several times where I almost caused substantial damage to an aircraft, but somehow managed to escape injury or equipment damage. The whole point of this thread is that there appears to be conflicting information. The only thing everyone wants is the truth - that's all. It appears that there is some mis- or dis- information out there. If the truth would just come out, everybody would let this rest, we would all go " sorry to hear that, glad the pilot is o.k., and wish for speedy repairs", then move on. Because it appears that someone has an agenda (no, Ryan S. I am not talking about you), people are going to "call them on it".

The whole point of this thread is to get accurate information - nothing else! No blaming or finger-pointing whatsoever, except to the people who have an agenda here.

Zactly, mate!

Why the B. S.?

Nothing else!

warbird2 · **Joined:** Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:03 am **Posts:** 173

warbird1 wrote:

The only thing everyone wants is the truth - that's all. It appears that there is some mis- or dis- information out there. If the truth would just come out, everybody would let this rest, we would all go " sorry to hear that, glad the pilot is o.k., and wish for speedy repairs", then move on. Because it appears that someone has an agenda (no, Ryan S. I am not talking about you), people are going to "call them on it".
The whole point of this thread is to get accurate information - nothing else! No blaming or finger-pointing whatsoever, except to the people who have an agenda here.

I am pretty new to warbirds and flying both but I do not understand why you the guy that types in big letters or anybody think you are entitled to any explanation about it. I don't know who owns this airplane but I do not think it is you. If it is privately owned then you are not owed a thing.

drivesa3 · **Joined:** Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:55 pm **Posts:** 6

Quote:

oPrevious PM | Next PM

Re: BAD NEWS FOR F8F 204the330thbgMon Feb 14, 2011 11:20 amdrivesa3 MessageSubject: BAD NEWS FOR F8F 204

drivesa3 wrote:
It's a beautiful day for flying in south texas,
Don't believe everything you see or read on the internet!
See you at the Laredo airshow...

BING

IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 58204 Make/Model: EXP Description: GRUMMAN F8F01
Date: 02/11/2011 Time: 1903

Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Minor

LOCATION
City: SAN ANTONIO State: TX Country: US

DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT ON TAXI, WENT ONTO ITS NOSE, SAN ANTONIO, TX

INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:

WEATHER: 1905Z 00000 10SM CLR A3032

OTHER DATA
Activity: Pleasure Phase: Taxi Operation: OTHER

FAA FSDO: SAN ANTONIO, TX (SW17) Entry date: 02/14/2011

YOU ARE AN IDIOT!!!

and a liar!!!!!

_________________
http://www.330th.org Historian, Webmaster and flag waver!

The B-29's with the big K on their tails!

Last edited by the330thbg on Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

Thanks for my PM

bdk · **Joined:** Sun May 02, 2004 1:16 am **Posts:** 11324

drivesa3 wrote:

Wow four days, 4000+ views, 72 posts and you finally get the point!
None of you were there, none of you saw what happened, yet everyone of you have an opinion.
Did you think about asking, What happened? No, you all assumed. So, naturally we had to spice it up, I made one post, made no statements about aircraft condition or well being, and you all turn on one another like rabid dogs!
PRICELESS...
there are those of you on the forum that know us, pick up the phone, ask " hey what happened, glad you are ok?"
I guarantee you would be better off...

Well, if we all were there, nobody would have to ask what happened. There are lots of folks here, some with years of direct experience, some that know nothing more than what they read on the internet. Most are somewhere in between.

At this point there is nothing to do but speculate. The only reliable information has come from the FAA and that isn't much. Whoever you are, you have not been proven to be any more reliable than anyone else. Are two posts enough to prove that you are credible? And now you admit being a troll to try to "spice it up"!

So what phone number should 1800 of us call to find out exactly what happened?

I have a mild curiosity as to what happened. Enough that I check this thread every couple of days.
Maybe there are some lessons here that I might be able to learn.

warbird1 · **Joined:** Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:25 pm **Posts:** 2760

airnutz wrote:

Sorry Warbird1, I botched the wording on a quick explanation. As Rich hinted"under power". Curled forward indicate power was being applied as the tips strike, as power degrades the following blades will more than likely bend backward. When throttled back and still turning, the blades will tend to bend backward. I'm sure there are better 'splainers round here...

51fixer wrote:

If the engine isn't producing power, ie broke or at idle, it will bend back.
Some times they might start bending forward but power can be pulled off at a point and forward motion can then bend them back.
Also depends how hard they hit. It could be a normal descent or a slam into the ground the P-51 plowing for the farmer.

Also prop types can act differently based on the type of blade.
The photos you posted are Ham Std with solid alum blade.
The Bearcat has a hollow steel blade.

Thanks for the explanations, airnutz and 51fixer, much appreciated!

drivesa3 · **Joined:** Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:55 pm **Posts:** 6

bdk wrote:

drivesa3 wrote:

Wow four days, 4000+ views, 72 posts and you finally get the point!
None of you were there, none of you saw what happened, yet everyone of you have an opinion.
Did you think about asking, What happened? No, you all assumed. So, naturally we had to spice it up, I made one post, made no statements about aircraft condition or well being, and you all turn on one another like rabid dogs!
PRICELESS...
there are those of you on the forum that know us, pick up the phone, ask " hey what happened, glad you are ok?"
I guarantee you would be better off...

Well, if we all were there, nobody would have to ask what happened. There are lots of folks here, some with years of direct experience, some that know nothing more than what they read on the internet. Most are somewhere in between.

At this point there is nothing to do but speculate. The only reliable information has come from the FAA and that isn't much. Whoever you are, you have not been proven to be any more reliable than anyone else. Are two posts enough to prove that you are credible? And now you admit being a troll to try to "spice it up"!

So what phone number should 1800 of us call to find out exactly what happened?

I have a mild curiosity as to what happened. Enough that I check this thread every couple of days.
Maybe there are some lessons here that I might be able to learn.

Call the chino airboss...

warbird1 · **Joined:** Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:25 pm **Posts:** 2760

51fixer wrote:

We won't get accurate info unless the involved parties give it.
It hasn't happened here and I don't think they will use WIX to answer our questions.
There is a point where we look like bystanders standing on the curb starring at a wreck.
I think this thread have gone past the point of looking worse than the people we are thinking are looking bad.
With time some accurate info will come out.
Seemingly arguing about prop tip curling and disinformation doesn't make this a desirable place to be.

Sir, with all due respect, I disagree. This thread had not made WIX undesirable. All anyone, including myself, is trying to do, is to piece together information to gather what happened. An "official" FAA report has been filed which DIRECTLY contradicts earlier statements. There are people on this forum who have intimate knowledge of what happened. The fact that they have not spoken up here in this thread speaks volumes. If our speculation is patently false, why would they not try to correct us and "set the story straight"? If you had knowledge and purposely did not give that knowledge to correct misinformation, what conclusion would a reasonable person draw from that? Obviously, there is some information that somebody doesn't want made public. That's fine, no problem there, but when an accident/incident/staged stunt happens at a very busy, public place, and official public records are made regarding such an incident, it is inevitable that people are going to speculate as to what happened.

warbird1 · **Joined:** Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:25 pm **Posts:** 2760

drivesa3 wrote:

Wow four days, 4000+ views, 72 posts and you finally get the point!
None of you were there, none of you saw what happened, yet everyone of you have an opinion.
Did you think about asking, What happened? No, you all assumed. So, naturally we had to spice it up, I made one post, made no statements about aircraft condition or well being, and you all turn on one another like rabid dogs!
PRICELESS...
there are those of you on the forum that know us, pick up the phone, ask " hey what happened, glad you are ok?"
I guarantee you would be better off...

Okay, I will be straight forward. There are at least 2, maybe 3 people who have participated in this thread who have direct knowledge of what happened.

So, what happened and why the contradictory explanations?

warbird1 · **Joined:** Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:25 pm **Posts:** 2760

warbird2 wrote:

I am pretty new to warbirds and flying both but I do not understand why you the guy that types in big letters or anybody think you are entitled to any explanation about it. I don't know who owns this airplane but I do not think it is you. If it is privately owned then you are not owed a thing.

First off, nice to meet you warbird2, I am warbird1, NOT "the330thbg". I don't write big letters, you are confusing me with him. I wouldn't think we are owed an explanation normally, except for the fact that "people in the know" have already contributed to this thread providing contradictory information. If they had not participated, I think everyone would have let this go and just waited for an explanation in due time. Since people are "pot-stirring" here in this thread, I now think we ARE owed at least an explanation of their given statements, not necessarily what happened during the incident in question.

drivesa3 · **Joined:** Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:55 pm **Posts:** 6

warbird1 wrote:

drivesa3 wrote:

Wow four days, 4000+ views, 72 posts and you finally get the point!
None of you were there, none of you saw what happened, yet everyone of you have an opinion.
Did you think about asking, What happened? No, you all assumed. So, naturally we had to spice it up, I made one post, made no statements about aircraft condition or well being, and you all turn on one another like rabid dogs!
PRICELESS...
there are those of you on the forum that know us, pick up the phone, ask " hey what happened, glad you are ok?"
I guarantee you would be better off...

Okay, I will be straight forward. There are at least 2, maybe 3 people who have participated in this thread who have direct knowledge of what happened.

So, what happened and why the contradictory explanations?

Private Matter. The mind trick was worth it!
This is the internet, we are under no obligation to disclose any information to you nor this forum,
this is a privately owned, operated and maintained aircraft. Would you enjoy the public records of your divorce displayed on this forum? This real life boys & girls, we don't have to kiss & tell...
If you are in the know, then you know how to reach us...

Warbird Information Exchange

BAD NEWS FOR F8F 204

Who is online