Thompson / Tinnerman?
Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:34 pm
Can someone explain to me the exact differences between these two races? At first I thought the Tinnerman Trophy was what was awarded to the winner of the Thompson Race in Cleveland (1946 - 1949). Now it seems the Tinnerman was a race all its own.
I'd love it if someone could straighten this out for me
THX!
I'd love it if someone could straighten this out for me
THX!
Sun Nov 07, 2004 8:40 pm
Thompson was closed course, pylon race; Tinnerman was cross country unlimited race.
Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:46 am
Ahhhh, excellent
Any idea as to what city was at the far end of the Tinnerman course? Cleveland -> ?
Any idea as to what city was at the far end of the Tinnerman course? Cleveland -> ?
Mon Nov 08, 2004 8:13 am
Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:03 pm
Hi guys--
Slight hiccup here...The transcon race that terminated in Cleveland was the Bendix. There were three "feature" pylon races at Cleveland during the NAR. The Tinnerman and the Sohio were, essentially, heats, run after qualifying; one of them involved the odd-numbered qualifiers (ie. 1st, 3rd, 5th etc) and the other the evens (2nd, 4th et al)--an interesting idea since it meant the two fields would be fairly comparable. In 1949, the top four finishers in the Sohio were Bill Odom in P-51C #7 (the ultimately ill-fated "Beguine"); Ron Puckett in F2G #18; Charles Tucker in P-63C #30; and Steve Beville in P-51D #77 (which lives on as Jimmy Leeward's "Air Ranch Special"). In the '49 Tinnerman the top four were Ben McKillen in F2G #57 ( the F2G now magnificently restored and flown by Bob Odegaard); Wilson V. Newhall in P-51K #65; F/L J. MacArthur in Spitfire XIVe (yep!) #80 (TZ138, now flyable in BC with Bob Jens); and Jack Hardwick in F-5G (P-38) #34. To confuse the issue just a bit, the top ten qualifiers received a "bye" into the Thompson...and could opt to save wear and tear by not flying in the prelims. In '49, Cook Cleland, in his F2G #94, did not participate in either prelim, but went on to win the Thompson that year (the same race in which Odom tragically crashed his P-51 into an occupied house in Berea OH).
BTW, I think the story of the '49 NAR would make a terrific film...with the side benefit of making necessary the recreation of F2G #94 and P-51 "Beguine"...
S.
Slight hiccup here...The transcon race that terminated in Cleveland was the Bendix. There were three "feature" pylon races at Cleveland during the NAR. The Tinnerman and the Sohio were, essentially, heats, run after qualifying; one of them involved the odd-numbered qualifiers (ie. 1st, 3rd, 5th etc) and the other the evens (2nd, 4th et al)--an interesting idea since it meant the two fields would be fairly comparable. In 1949, the top four finishers in the Sohio were Bill Odom in P-51C #7 (the ultimately ill-fated "Beguine"); Ron Puckett in F2G #18; Charles Tucker in P-63C #30; and Steve Beville in P-51D #77 (which lives on as Jimmy Leeward's "Air Ranch Special"). In the '49 Tinnerman the top four were Ben McKillen in F2G #57 ( the F2G now magnificently restored and flown by Bob Odegaard); Wilson V. Newhall in P-51K #65; F/L J. MacArthur in Spitfire XIVe (yep!) #80 (TZ138, now flyable in BC with Bob Jens); and Jack Hardwick in F-5G (P-38) #34. To confuse the issue just a bit, the top ten qualifiers received a "bye" into the Thompson...and could opt to save wear and tear by not flying in the prelims. In '49, Cook Cleland, in his F2G #94, did not participate in either prelim, but went on to win the Thompson that year (the same race in which Odom tragically crashed his P-51 into an occupied house in Berea OH).
BTW, I think the story of the '49 NAR would make a terrific film...with the side benefit of making necessary the recreation of F2G #94 and P-51 "Beguine"...
S.
Re: Thompson / Tinnerman?
Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:07 pm
Nothing like dredging up a really old thread.....but.....the Tinnerman actually had three different formats between 1947-49.
The "Unlimited" races at the Post-War Cleveland events were:
Bendix: This was the transcon race, usually from Los Angeles to Cleveland.
Sohio (Standard Oil Company of Ohio, if I remember right): In 1946 this was a race open to the planes that failed to qualify fast enough for the Thompson Trophy race. 8 laps/240 miles. In 1947 the Sohio was a race reserved strictly for P-38/variant airframes. 7 laps/105 miles. In 1948 the Sohio was a timed/handicapped race open to any/all Thompson qualifiers. 7 laps/105 miles. In 1949 the Sohio was a 'heat race' open to odd-numbered qualifiers in the Thompson. 7 laps/105 miles.
Kendall (Kendall Oil Company): The Kendall trophy race was run in 1947 only, open to all P-51/variants. 7 laps/105 miles.
Tinnerman (Tinnerman Products & Engineering): The 1947 Tinnerman was a race open to P-63/variants (but oddly not for P-39's). 7 laps/105 miles. In 1948 the Tinnerman was a race "limited to 2850 Cubic Inches", which was a nice way of saying the F2G's couldn't play. 7 laps/105 miles. In 1949 the Tinnerman was another 'heat race' open to even-numbered qualifiers for the Thompson. 7 laps/105 miles.
Thompson (Thompson Products...now TRW): The "Championship Race", open to the 12 fastest qualifiers in 1946/47, and 10 fastest qualifiers in 48/49. 1946 10 laps/300 miles. 1947, 10 laps/300 miles (13 planes actually started this race). 1948 20 laps/300 miles. 1949 15 laps/225 miles.
The "Unlimited" races at the Post-War Cleveland events were:
Bendix: This was the transcon race, usually from Los Angeles to Cleveland.
Sohio (Standard Oil Company of Ohio, if I remember right): In 1946 this was a race open to the planes that failed to qualify fast enough for the Thompson Trophy race. 8 laps/240 miles. In 1947 the Sohio was a race reserved strictly for P-38/variant airframes. 7 laps/105 miles. In 1948 the Sohio was a timed/handicapped race open to any/all Thompson qualifiers. 7 laps/105 miles. In 1949 the Sohio was a 'heat race' open to odd-numbered qualifiers in the Thompson. 7 laps/105 miles.
Kendall (Kendall Oil Company): The Kendall trophy race was run in 1947 only, open to all P-51/variants. 7 laps/105 miles.
Tinnerman (Tinnerman Products & Engineering): The 1947 Tinnerman was a race open to P-63/variants (but oddly not for P-39's). 7 laps/105 miles. In 1948 the Tinnerman was a race "limited to 2850 Cubic Inches", which was a nice way of saying the F2G's couldn't play. 7 laps/105 miles. In 1949 the Tinnerman was another 'heat race' open to even-numbered qualifiers for the Thompson. 7 laps/105 miles.
Thompson (Thompson Products...now TRW): The "Championship Race", open to the 12 fastest qualifiers in 1946/47, and 10 fastest qualifiers in 48/49. 1946 10 laps/300 miles. 1947, 10 laps/300 miles (13 planes actually started this race). 1948 20 laps/300 miles. 1949 15 laps/225 miles.