Mystery B-17?

mike furline · **Joined:** Wed May 05, 2004 3:45 pm **Posts:** 2679

Pathfinder wrote:

Where, exactly, did the original poster come up with this photo?

From Uncle John (passed away), enlisted in the Marine Corps late 1945, aircraft mechanic based at Quantico.
Discharged post war, college, re-enlisted Korea, Capt., Tank Commander.

His other pics are your typical Corsair, Duck, SNJ, SNB types.

Regards,
Mike

TonyM · **Posted:** Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:23 pm

mike furline wrote:

Any ideas on this B-17? Believe the picture was taken at Marine Corps Base Quantico in 1945.

Looks like it is 44-89XX. 44-8900 thru 44-8999 are legit B-17 serial numbers.

44-8959 and 44-8990 were both assigned to the US Navy during the time in question.

Not saying that one of these numbers is the answer, just saying that these B-17s were assigned to the US Navy.

Still looking.

TM.

WallyB · **Posted:** Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:18 pm

We really need a Photoshop wiz to bring out that serial; every time I look at it I get a different reading.

Could it possibly be 44-6393 converted to CB-17G then to VB-17G.
Used by General Ira Eaker - Spent 10 months in combat.
-- Spent next 11 years as VIP aircraft (partial assignment list below).
-- Served with 4112th Base Unit at Olmstead, FL.
-- Served with 16th Air Depot, Bolling Field, Washington, DC.
-- Served with 18th Maintenance & Supply Group, Clark AFB, Philipines.
-- Served with 1130th Special Activities Group, Nanking, China.
-- To Lloyd Aero Bolivaro Jan 1957 as CP-627. Crashed at La Paz Aug 27, 1968, rebuilt with
parts from B-17G 43-38322/CP-580.
-- To Frigorifico Reyes as CP-891
-- Returned to USA in 1980 for display at March Field Museum as B-17F-105-BO 42-30092. Restored in 1997-98 and now
bears its original serial number.

* confirmed VIP conversion
* reported natural metal

Nathan · **Posted:** Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:59 pm

IMHO I think this is a B-17F. Not a "G" model.

TonyM · **Posted:** Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:08 pm

Nathan wrote:

IMHO I think this is a B-17F. Not a "G" model.

The shroud on the exhaust on the number-two engine and the navigator windows on the port nose say "G" to me.

TM.

Nathan · **Posted:** Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:13 pm

I believe late model B-17F's had the side nose blisters added.

DryMartini · **Posted:** Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:15 pm

Pitot tube and football antenna say B-17G.
This is a late production G model minus turrets.

TonyM · **Posted:** Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:27 pm

Nathan wrote:

I believe late model B-17F's had the side nose blisters added.

I am not talking about the side nose blisters.
I am referring to the two small windows within the striped area aft of the cheek gun window.
The two small windows side by side like that on the port side and port cheek gun forward is B-17G.

TM.

Jollygreenslugg · **Posted:** Thu Apr 28, 2011 12:14 am

Nathan wrote:

IMHO I think this is a B-17F. Not a "G" model.

Looks like the circular patch over the chin turret hole is there.

Cheers,
Matt

Second Air Force · **Posted:** Thu Apr 28, 2011 12:22 am

Yes, it is a later G. The heat exchanger exhaust shrouds are a dead giveaway. If it is a Vega (44-85xx it appears to me) it is in the same general block as Yagen's new acquisition.

daviemax · **Posted:** Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:01 am

Took me a while to discover this thread. Anyway, based on my research generally, I believe following applies to the aircraft in these photos:
1. It is a G-model.
2. The vertical antenna on the nose was used by DB's, as well as the longitudinal antenna on lower LH nose.
3. Most DB's had radar in the ball turret position however; this aircraft does not appear to have that installed (yet).
4. The striping could indicate the aircraft was involved in Green Project (transport usage at end of war in Europe) but IMO this aircraft isn't one of them.
5. Based on the comments regarding serial numbers, this aircraft is likely from the 44-6 (Douglas) or 44-8 (Vega) blocks. Many of these aircraft served well into the 50's.
6. If the serial is in the 48-5 range as suggested above, then it could be 44-8551 which according to available records was converted for ferret work. Note second antenna on aft fuselage.
7. It is possible this aircraft is mid-way through the process of being converted so it is not being shown in final configuration. If so, may have became a DB.
8. Possibilities include ferret, drone director, project Banshee, special test aircraft, or CIA. The CIA operated several B-17's and in addition to the two serials mentioned in this thread there were others that have not be identified. At least four were shot down flying over China.

As with so many post-war B-17's - which were used for a bewildering array of purposes - this is yet another tantalizing mystery. Thanks for sharing the photo.

daviemax · **Posted:** Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:32 pm

[b I have determined that this aircraft is 44-8906, based on another view that I found in my photo collection - on a Swiss Air post-card, of all things. I will upload that image when I can make time, and also comment on the possible use and fate of the aircraft.[/b]

Chris Brame · **Posted:** Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:21 pm

Congrats Davie - don't you just love those Eureka! moments?
BTW, any chance that 44-83639 was a CIA bird? One of the old Clark Field photos of the all-black B-17s shows one with "639" in the slot on the tail.

Taigh Ramey · **Posted:** Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:23 pm

To me it looks like all of the people are just hanging around waiting to board their flight.

My wild assed guess is that it is a B-17G that was converted for general transport. I would bet that it has lots of seats in the back and that the radio room was eliminated or moved to the flight deck or nose. The normal long wire antenna for the liaison radio ran from the top of the vertical to the side of the radio room where the radio was. I bet the antenna just forward of the windshield is actually a standoff or mast for the long wire that likely fed in to the nose or the aft flight deck. I would expect either a guy wire going from the mast to the nose for strain relief or possibly the antenna wire itself went from the top of the mast to a feed through insulator on the nose.

The AN-104 axe handle VHF antenna is in its normal position on the strake going up to the vertical stab which is expected as it was a remotely operated unit so no relocation was necessary.

The Swoose had executive mods that put the radio operator just aft of the pilot/copilot. Maybe this aircraft had a similar configuration.

daviemax · **Posted:** Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:53 pm

Chris Brame wrote:

Congrats Davie - don't you just love those Eureka! moments?
BTW, any chance that 44-83639 was a CIA bird? One of the old Clark Field photos of the all-black B-17s shows one with "639" in the slot on the tail.

Everyone

First, thanks Chris. 44-83639 was a QB-17G converted to -N in August '57 and was expended (apparently) in error sometime later when serving as a near-miss target for the U.S. Navy while flying out of Patrick AFB. (QB-17s were expended as targets for both AF and Navy weapons development programs.) The aircraft at Clark Field may have been 44-85531 as has been suggested by some sources. It had a special rack for replaceable tail numbers so its identity could be changed easily (like gas station pricing signs). The '639' could be entirely arbitrary. In any case it could not be 483639.

Second, below is my photo of 44-8906, which was the subject of a Swissair postcard (that I acquired and scanned). According to available records, which are incomplete, 44-8906 was assigned to Tulln Air Base at Tulln, Austria in the immediate post-war period. This base was used for troop-carrier squadrons and an airways communications unit. It is very likely that 44-8906 was assigned to the latter purpose, which would explain some of the antennas. The visit to Quantico could be in conjunction with a visit to the U.S. for equipment upgrade. Note that the vertical antenna extending from the nose is different from that in the photo taken at Quantico.

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