B-17 Vega Data Plate (Question for the Experts)

390BG · **Posted:** Wed May 04, 2011 7:00 am

Have a question for all the B-17 experts out there. We need dataplates for our B-17 Champaign Lady - 44-85813. Below are modern repro's that are available - but which version is correct for a late model Vega built B-17?

OR

Jollygreenslugg · **Posted:** Wed May 04, 2011 9:15 am

*edit* I read the question again. Properly this time! Thanks for the clarification...

Cheers,
Matt

Second Air Force · **Posted:** Wed May 04, 2011 10:38 am

I'll look through my saved photos to see if I have a picture of the data plate from 44-8543, though it was built on a much earlier contract.

aerovin · **Posted:** Wed May 04, 2011 11:33 am

From Dik Shepherd, who knows data plates, this bit of information:

Notice that the figures on the Boeing plate are a particular [machine] stamping, while the others are [obviously] hand stamped. This style for the Boeing data plates was started in the 1930s and is the same as on my Y1B-17 plate. Also notice that the Boeing and Vega plates don't have the USAAF serial number, while the Douglas and Lockheed plates do.

I doubt that you'll notice, but the Lockheed plate is from "HANG THE EXPENSE IV".

Tell the guy that his Lockheed plate would be correct.

I'll add my two cents that the Vega plate illustrated has the msn for the serial and it would be interesting to know if all Vega B-17 plates used the msn for the serial on the plate. I know the EAA airplane (44-85740) is missing its aft bulkhead plate...but there are a number of same block Vega-built B-17s out there (Yankee Lady, 390th Memorial Museum, Liberty Belle) that might have plates that will provide the definitive answer. Somewhere near the end of Pete Bowers' Fortress in the Sky is an illustration with several data plates. Not in front of me right now but perhaps that would shed some additonal light.

jdvoss · **Posted:** Wed May 04, 2011 12:06 pm

The book entitled " Fortress in the Sky" by Peter Bowers, pg 246 has a photo display of the name plates utilized by the three mfgr's. The "Vega" plate pictured has data stamped for a B-17F (s/n 6253) and the Lockheed plate has the data for a B-17G-20-VE 42-97560. Bowers comments that the Lockeed plate was used after Vega became a division of the parent company. But then the question remains did Lockheed used up all the stock of the Vega plates prior to those reflecting the parent company? I would surmise that if you are applying the plate to a B-17G s/n 42-97560 or later you would be historically correct.

390BG · **Posted:** Wed May 04, 2011 1:13 pm

Good information, I believe the consensus is a very late model "G" would have the Lockheed plate. We are going to try and make our own using a PCB (acid etch) process. We have made the rear data plate using Press-and-Peel PCB paper and a laser printer. This is mounted on the bulkhead behind the rear crew entry door using - will post photo later.

aerovin · **Posted:** Wed May 04, 2011 1:29 pm

390BG wrote:

We have made the rear data plate using Press-and-Peel PCB paper and a laser printer. This is mounted on the bulkhead behind the rear crew entry door using - will post photo later.

In my experience, this is where the manufacturer's data plate that we are talking about is (also?) mounted.

Todd Hackbarth · **Posted:** Wed May 04, 2011 1:45 pm

Scott,

This oval data plate was mounted on the lower lefthand corner of the instrument panel in front of the pilot.

The original oval manufacturer's data plate was missing from B-17G-110-VE 44-85829 when she was purchased by the Yankee Air Force way back in 1986. I remember having to make the same decision regarding whether to use a reproduction Vega or Lockheed plate almost 20 years ago. We used the one that says Lockheed.

What we believe to be the original "U.S. Army Air Corps" data plate is still in the aircraft back by the tailwheel on the right side of the fuselage. There is a plastic U.S. Navy/USCG plate next to it.

Todd

aerovin · **Posted:** Wed May 04, 2011 1:47 pm

Thanks for that info....I should have known that.

aerovin · **Posted:** Wed May 04, 2011 5:57 pm

Not directly applicable to the original query, but nonetheless interesting, these are the data plates affixed to the bulkhead just aft of the maiin entrance door on B-17G 44-85829 (or PB-1G 77255), otherwise flying now as N3193G, Yankee Lady, courtesy of Todd Hackbarth.

390BG · **Posted:** Wed May 04, 2011 7:49 pm

Photo of rear dataplate is useful - we made ours based on a photo of the plate from Sentimental Journey (Douglas built?) There are slight differences, ie, the block number is not show on the Douglas plate. Don't know if there is any source for the "Order No.". Have the contract number and the MSN, but not sure if the order number is available anywhere. Anyway, we'll use this as the model, since 44-85813 is the same production block as Yankee Lady.

390BG · **Posted:** Fri May 20, 2011 10:21 am

Our first attempt at producing a data plate. Needs a little more definition from the acid etch process, but I think a good first try.

Fouga23 · **Posted:** Fri May 20, 2011 11:33 am

Looks nice

Could you explain the process of making such a plate?

390BG · **Posted:** Fri May 20, 2011 2:55 pm

Pretty simple process, we used a product call Press-and-Peel blue (PCB- for printed circuit boards).

Step 1. Create a design on the computer - we use Microsoft Power Point, but any kind of program could be used.
2. "Reverse" the design (left to right)
3. Print your reversed design on the Press-n-Peel film. Must use a laser printer (uses heat transfer).
4. Iron the design on your aluminum plate. Peel off the blue film, leaving the ink on your plate. Touch up with Sharpie permanent marker if required.
5. Immerse in a 2-1 mixture of Hydrogen Peroxide and Muriatic Acid
6. Rinse in water.
7. Remove the ink using lacquer thinner.
8. Trim the plate and paint.
9. Carefully sand using very fine wet sandpaper - must use a sanding block that has no padding, so that the paper will not reach below the raised lettering and remove the background paint.
10. We then stamped the serial number, etc.

Biggest Issues:
1. Your iron must be at the correct heat setting (I used a thermometer to find the setting for 325 deg F) to transfer the design evenly without melting the film.
2. Experiment with how much time to leave in the acid mixture. You can remove the plate, rinse, and then put back in if you need to.

The paper is fairly inexpensive, we purchased ours on eBay. The process does require a lot of trial and error

Fouga23 · **Posted:** Sat May 21, 2011 3:10 am

Thanks

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B-17 Vega Data Plate (Question for the Experts)

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