Warbird Information Exchange

This afternoon at an estate auction I was given(!) a copy of The R.C.A.F. Overseas: The First Four Years from 1944. Tucked inside the cover was a piece of doped fabric, part greenish-gray/part dark blue (sharp edged curve where the colors meet, maybe part of a roundel). On the back is the following (handwritten spelled as is):

"Frabric off of a smashed Norsemen aircraft at Port Alice, BC 1942"

So, does anyone have records of Norseman accidents from '42 at Port Alice? It'd be interesting to find which Norseman it came from. Thanks!

_________________

All right, Mister Dorfmann, start pullin'!
Pilot: "Flap switch works hard in down position."
Mechanic: "Flap switch checked OK. Pilot needs more P.T." - Flight report, TB-17G 42-102875 (Hobbs AAF)

Will pass along to my buddy Ron, he has a lot of historical info.

_________________
Mike

Ah yes, There we were, left engine on fire, right engine feathered...ahh yes,...there we were, ..Screwed! No Kissing!

Chris, here is what my friend passed on, it may be what your piece of fabric is from:

Hi Mike:

After checking what I have on 1942 Norseman west coast incidents I believe the aircraft in question is RCAF # 695.

There is a bit of a mystery due to the aircraft being involved in two accidents and the info provided indicates a link to both.

Here is a thumb nail:

The aircraft was built as a MK II in 1936 and given civil registration CF- AZA. It was converted to a MK III on 4.12.36 and converted again to Mk IV standard on 28.4.37. It was acquired by MacKenzie Air Service where it sunk at Fort McMurray in 1938. It was rebuilt and was impressed into the RCAF.

It was on strength of 6BR Squadron at RCAF Station Alliford Bay during 1940 and 41. It then moved to 122(K) Squadron at Pat Bay where it suffered a Cat C accident on 6.10.42. The aircraft then moved to 116 Squadron where it suffered a Cat A accident near Port Alice on 4.2.44 with 4 fatalities. The aircraft was returning to base after the crew had conducted RCAF business at Port Alice.

The mystery is that the fabric remnant refers to both accidents.


Hope this helps>

Cheers, Ron
.........
As i see it, if the fabric is from 42, it was from the first accident. This plane had a second accident in 44. That was all my friend had available. I did find that The first RCAF Norseman, number 695, was in fact the first MK IV, CF-AZA. This tidbit i found at the following website http://www.norsemanhistory.ca/Overview.htm .

Mike

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Mike

Ah yes, There we were, left engine on fire, right engine feathered...ahh yes,...there we were, ..Screwed! No Kissing!

Thanks, Ron! Looking at it in daylight it looks more like two shades of blue. Would the color have been changed from yellow in 1944? When I can get to a scanner I'll post images.

_________________

All right, Mister Dorfmann, start pullin'!
Pilot: "Flap switch works hard in down position."
Mechanic: "Flap switch checked OK. Pilot needs more P.T." - Flight report, TB-17G 42-102875 (Hobbs AAF)

Canadian Norsemans served in a few color scheme variations.
Yellow was predominant, but they did have what I believe (having only scene black and white photos) having a dark grey & green camo with possibly lighter grey belly. The roundel extended onto the underbelly where it was likely grey. Post war many were silver.
A photo of one can be seen on page 195 of 60 years of the RCAF and CF Air Command 1924-1984.

_________________
Mike

Ah yes, There we were, left engine on fire, right engine feathered...ahh yes,...there we were, ..Screwed! No Kissing!

As promised, here is the item in question:




Does the color look right for a 1944 scheme?

_________________

All right, Mister Dorfmann, start pullin'!
Pilot: "Flap switch works hard in down position."
Mechanic: "Flap switch checked OK. Pilot needs more P.T." - Flight report, TB-17G 42-102875 (Hobbs AAF)

Borrowing from a couple images on the Norseman site and tweaking them gives me this:



Is this what RCAF 695 would have looked like in '44?

_________________

All right, Mister Dorfmann, start pullin'!
Pilot: "Flap switch works hard in down position."
Mechanic: "Flap switch checked OK. Pilot needs more P.T." - Flight report, TB-17G 42-102875 (Hobbs AAF)

I called on my friend Ron once again as he is an expert on Canadian military paint schemes and insignia....read below. Mike

The colours of the fabric and the drawing bring more questions.

The blue in the roundel seems to be very bright. Its well known that colours on aircraft flown in Canada tended to be brighter than those in Britain. This blue seems to be almost an ultramarine which is not unknown but was rare. The gray-green camo colour seems right for a faded example of the specified colour.

I have never come across any reference to a Norseman with a dark gray upper surface as shown on the drawing. The roundel and fin flash with a thin white area would be right for 1944. Although many aircraft carried the earlier style roundel and fin flash til the end of the war.

The inscription on the fabric is puzzling as it mentions an accident in 1942 that did not take place at Port Alice, and another incident two years later that did.

Over the next couple of days I will see what I can find.

Cheers,

Ron

_________________
Mike

Ah yes, There we were, left engine on fire, right engine feathered...ahh yes,...there we were, ..Screwed! No Kissing!

Thanks Ron and Mike - the blue is actually darker in person; my scanner brightened it a bit. The other color is pretty much correct.

_________________

All right, Mister Dorfmann, start pullin'!
Pilot: "Flap switch works hard in down position."
Mechanic: "Flap switch checked OK. Pilot needs more P.T." - Flight report, TB-17G 42-102875 (Hobbs AAF)

Chris,
I have the entire investigative file on that accident. I sent you a private message this morning.
Thanks,

Fabric has been sent to the pilot's nephew. He has a lot of info on this crash and hopefully he will post it here. Glad I could help.

_________________

All right, Mister Dorfmann, start pullin'!
Pilot: "Flap switch works hard in down position."
Mechanic: "Flap switch checked OK. Pilot needs more P.T." - Flight report, TB-17G 42-102875 (Hobbs AAF)