Warbird Information Exchange

two of the top lake erie wreck divers in the u.s. gave me a list of found warbirds on both the u.s. & canadian sides of the lake. there are your run of the mill civilian types as well. some of the copied material is hard to read so there may be some errors on my part. lake erie warbird wrecks as follows, some with minute details. some additional info is vague in nature, scrawled quickly in their research notes, but all somewhat verified.....

biplane, february 1912 or 1913, pilot earl sandt?? 10 miles off ne? destination erie pa to pt rowan? pilot got to shore.

navy ad -6 skyraider, 60 degrees, 4 1/2 miles north east off dunkirk

grumman mallard 6 / 29 / 51...... civilian?? who knows?? but worth mentioning!!

unknown usaf jet, 4/25 /59

navy training plane 9/ 1 / 75 off cleveland oh, recovered

canadian snowbird 6 /21 /01 recovered, burwell

rcn grumman avenger, landed on ice near port stanley

boeing p6 -e u.s. aircorp fighter # 32 - 0240, lost 9/1/34 enroute from selfridge field mi, enroute to cleveland oh, 2nd lt. clement j. gastner pilot, 17th pursuit squadron, lost in storm. ( i have accompanying crash report copy, my own opinion is that he was on his way to the 34 cleveland nat. air races) another researcher's notes stated the strength of the air mass of the storm would have pushed him east of canada's pelee island.

have fun researching this info guys!! i'm anxious to see any additional info!!

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

Looks like a Royal Canadian Navy Avenger is eligible for civilian recovery unless it is a grave site and it doesn't sound like it... Not property of US Navy.

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Cheers!

Lance Jones

Interesting, although the P-6E was made by Curtiss, not Boeing. While most of the WWII warbirds lost in the Great Lakes went down in Lake Michigan (due to carrier training there) I've often wondered what treasures the other lakes might hold.

SN

There should be a PBY for sure and maybe a Duck too in Erie. One Duck went down on the Toledo River during TO or landing but I think that was recovered. I "think" there was another off of Grosse Isle but I'm not sure about that one. I seen the "accident card" for one of them. I know a couple different folks who have looked for planes there.

I have heard rumors of a planned recovery, but like I said on another thread, unless it's at least 75 feet down there's not going to be much left of it due to the ice.

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grumman mallard is n - 2946 crashed 6/29/51 off geneva ontario canada. there is an additional seaplane mentioned in the diver's notes, but it is listed as lost 4/20/73. no i.d. of type. erie pa to howell michigan 5 to 7 miles from lighthouse burke to detroit city airport. i seriously doubt it's a j2f duck, but wishful thinking!!

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

This Toledo Duck(s) went down circa 1940-ish. When I get a chance, I'll see if I can find the card to confirm/deny what the deal is.

Edit Added.....I found it. It is a 2nd Duck. J2F-6 #33541, LTJG L.R. Crowder, sunk on 10/19/45.

sounds like some dots are getting connected re: the canadian avenger ay??

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

If someone was serious about looking for Lake Erie aircraft.....it looks like a certain helo rescue crewman flew on many of the crashes....AD1 Morris Bertsch. I gather from the Grosse Ile historical website.....he's still alive. I hope he doesn't get mad at me!

" biplane, february 1912 or 1913, pilot earl sandt?? 10 miles off ne? destination erie pa to pt rowan? pilot got to shore."


Saturday 20 Feb 1912

Lewis Earle Sandt aged 29 (known as Earle Sandt)

Crashed Biplane on Ice on Lake Erie 5 miles from North End, Pennsylvania. oveturned knocked unconcious. He walked to shore when he came around. Aeroplane
sank to bottom of Lake Erie. Described as "Curtiss" type.

He died of Lockjaw on June 23 1913 at Grove City, PA. He developed the condition after falling from an aeroplane on June 12 1913

boeing p6 -e u.s. aircorp fighter # 32 - 0240, lost 9/1/34 enroute from selfridge field mi, enroute to cleveland oh, 2nd lt. clement j. gastner pilot, 17th pursuit squadron, lost in storm. ( i have accompanying crash report copy, my own opinion is that he was on his way to the 34 cleveland nat. air races) another researcher's notes stated the strength of the air mass of the storm would have pushed him east of canada's pelee island.


This has been covered before here


Sept 1st 1934


Curtiss Y1P-22 (P-6E) 32-240

32-240 missing over Lake Erie Sep 1, 1934 (not Sept 24 1932 as per Baugher)

Lieut. Clement J. Gaster (Reserve Officer) of the First Army Pursuit group from Selfridge Feild, Michgan was attempting to fly over Lake Erie from Detroit.
Missing since he left Mt. Clemens for Cleveland en-route for Cleveland races



viewtopic.php?f=3&t=40524&start=15

A Lockheed P-38J (42-67953) was thought to have disappeared into Lake Michigan on 12-29-43. The pilot was 1Lt. Orlando J. Vivirito, 24, Chicago, IL.

The pilot took off from Chicago Municipal Airport (now Midway) and then flew over his brother's house on the north side. The pilot is thought to have over flown Lake Michigan on his way to Newark, New Jersey. This aircraft and pilot remain missing. It has been speculated that the airplane went down in Lake Michigan.

TM.

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"Welcome back Mr. Lasky."

i wonder if A & T RECOVERY of chicago has a bee on the missing p-38?? after all they've done all the salvage ops under the authority of the navy. i guess it's finders keepers for anybody as the usaf writes off any missing old warbird!!

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

I think with the Navy stuff, they had a rough location to start with from the ship's log. That P-38 would be nearly like finding the lost squadron or Amelia Earhart's shoe!