Warbird Information Exchange

Can a Mod please add 'no major injuries' to the thread title?

Glad to hear it was no worse, and indeed, credit to the crew.

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James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com

Its always a good thing when everyone can escape an incident like this. A great job by the crew.

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Ain't no sunshine when she's gone!

From experience, events like this can overwhelm your hosting folks pretty quickly. There was a good sized spike in '04 after our fire, so I can't imagine what their numbers looked like today. The site was erroring out earlier, and appears to have been pulled either by the host or the site admin for the time being.

Glad everyone's OK. Web hosting is certainly the least of all concerns today.

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Phil K.
Yankee Air Museum
Systems Admin / Ramp Crew / Professional Photo Ruiner

I just have a quick question(I have commented earlier): I noticed in the Chicago tribune photos that the back door was signed by many veterans. Does anybody know if they similarly signed the front door? And, did the rear door survive the fire? The burn line goes right to it, and if they pulled the emergency pins and kicked the door out of the opening it may have... It does not look like the door was still there, but I can't really tell.

The only reason I ask, and maybe it is silly, or dumb, is that I would hate to think that all those vets connection with the aircraft was lost- I hope that maybe enough of the door survived that it could be hung down at their HQ, or something, to show the signatures...

It just made me a little sadder to think that those vets memory- their marks on that door- has also been lost- and I am sure many of them have gone west as well by this point.

Just a thought...

Scott

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1942 Dodge WC-51 Weapons Carrier
I am a reenactor, have been since the early 1980s, and I am an aviation enthusiast, PILOT, A&P mechanic, and military vehicle owner. I have restored cars, trucks, and antique radios. These are MY hobbies- What are YOURS?.

Dave,

I see a photo on their page of an older Oshkosh (can't tell if it's theirs or not), but the A/FD and the Part 139 list don't list Aurora or Sugar Grove as ARFF certified by the FAA. Do you have more information on this capability? The truck they showed doesn't have dry chemical capability, so even if it had been able to get there, I still don't know how much use it would have been because of the issue of the magnesium.

Google map coordinates of the landing place.

41.662834,-88.364822

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Zane Adams
There I was at 20,000 ft, upside down and out of ammunition.
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A Class D fire (burning metal) is the worst kind. We're taught and tested on using short bursts of water fog to extinguish. The goal is to reduce the heat. AFF acts an insulator in Class D's. Once the Class D is out, then fight what's present. What throws alot of folks off is if you have a battery fire.

THOSE and I shout that! We who dwell here are heartbroken over this situation. Let's not use this forum to speculate! We have lost a beautiful airplane that has meant so much to all of us. How and why is beyond all speculation, let's let the story become real before ANY feel the need pontificate on what they think caused this! "God Bless Us" that none were injured and all of us pray for those who are in despair!

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tracers work both ways

With regards to speculation - and the posts here. This is the WIX - Warbird Information Exchange, and there are some things that are obvious from the photos. We have several B-17 operations-related folks here on the board, and if they, and other knowledgeable (ie. not complete amateurs trying to show off) parties feel it is appropriate to discuss potential issues related to what they see in the photos, I think that is legitimate. I posted something earlier, related to what was said on the AOPA forum, regarding maintenance that they saw being done in that area. It seemed pretty legitimate, and possibly pertinent. I removed it because it offended at least one other member here. I apologize for that, but I personally thought it was possibly useful information for other B-17 operators. I for one would be extremely interested in diagnosing any L-5 issues of a similar nature that might affect my safety as a pilot, or those that I take flying in the aircraft. I think the line is drawn when we try to assign blame. Then it becomes a problem.

Ryan

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Aerial Photographer with Red Wing Aerial Photography currently based at KRBD and tailwheel CFI.
Websites: Texas Tailwheel Flight Training, DoolittleRaid.com and Lbirds.com.

The horse is prepared against the day of battle: but safety is of the LORD. - Prov. 21:31 - Train, Practice, Trust.

I don't know much more than what's on the website. When I said capable I didn't mean to imply fully certified; the Aurora airport to my knowledge is not a part 139 facility.

I did find this video clip showing their ARFF rigs here: http://youtu.be/YqxxnDd65d4

FWIW,
Dave

I agree with all the others. I'm filled with admiration for the crew, who did such a heroic job of bringing her down with no fatalities or serious injuries. But I'm terribly saddened over the loss of such a beautiful aircraft.

I feel great affection for all Forts, but Liberty Belle held a special place for me. I loved the story of how she was brought back from the destruction of the hurricane, and how the components of two Forts were combined into one, along with the new-build. In addition, the crew and volunteers of Liberty Belle always showed me great kindness. Every time LB flew into Hayward Airport, Ray Fowler, John Shuttleworth, and others whose names I have unforgiveably forgotten answered my questions with great patience and knowledge.

To Don Brooks and his extended family: We are with you tonight.

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The main winding was of the normal lotus-o deltoid type placed in panendermic semi-bolloid slots of the stator. Every seventh conductor being connected by a non-reversible tremmy pipe to the differential girdle spring on the up-end of the grammeters. Moreover, whenever fluorescent square motion is required, it may also be employed in conjunction with the drawn reciprocation dingle arm, to reduce sinusoidal depleneration.

My condolences to the "Liberty Foundation", a great loss for the warbird community.
But, you "armchair firefighters" really need to get off your pedestals. Until you've been in their, or my boots, you really shouldn't criticize. No local FD is going to have near enough foam or "D" extinguishing agent to put out that blaze. Hell, they'd have gotten ten feet out into that cornfield and sunk up to the axles. Give em a break!......Sincerely, John

Sorry, I am upset. I do know the hard work as my cousin is a volunteer fire cheif. Can we expect some sorte of wix donation effort to send to the Liberty Foundation folks?

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Shop the Airplane Bunker At
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Liberty Foundation ~ Bless you all

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Blue Skies .....

Peter

Consolidated by US state ~ see if there's a heavy bomber tour stop coming to an airport near you ...... http://www.bomberflight.info

Warbirdapps on facebook ~ every day a new image from my personal journey thru the world of warbirds ..... https://www.facebook.com/Warbirdapps

NOT taking sides, but the fire company I used to belong to had one engine which always had 3 or 4 AFFF barrels on board- I think they were something like 25 gallon or 40 or something(it has been nearly 20 years) which had a simple hook-up, and could have been run out to an aircraft with a few lengths of 3" and the pickup and foam nozzle. We were trained how to run it out, and set it up. I guess Liberty Belle was to far off the road to hand lay the line and carry out the AFFF in time if they had it on board.(Not sarcastic, I just don't know the exact location, S.O.P. of the fire company, etc.) I forget the expansion rates of the AFFF, and the limitations, but I'd think that IF they had been able to reach the aircraft, and IF they had the proper foam, etc, that they WOULD have tried to do so- Any firefighter would do their best to save the victims property if at all possible. I did, at first question the firefighters, but thought about what has been said in their defense here, and see the valid points.

It is just too sad she wasn't able to be saved... Thankfully she gave her crew time to escape. And God Bless their escort's pilot for sounding the alarm in time! I hate to think what might have happened had they not found out as early as they did.

Scott

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1942 Dodge WC-51 Weapons Carrier
I am a reenactor, have been since the early 1980s, and I am an aviation enthusiast, PILOT, A&P mechanic, and military vehicle owner. I have restored cars, trucks, and antique radios. These are MY hobbies- What are YOURS?.