Mid-air at Duxford, Pilots ok

[Red Tail]

Looking forward


Wish I had a handy dandy red marker to mark the photos. This photo tells the story: The silver pipe looking thing is the coolant door actuator rod. The cables that appear to surround it are the elevator cables. Note where they come through the bulkhead at the bottom near the "Shelf". The rudder cables are little harder to see but they are about an inch or so above the shelf, one on each side of the fuselage. The oxygen bottle rack covers up the left through-hole in the bulkhead but the adjuster clevis can clearly be seen...the blue cap on the AN fitting looks like it's pointing at it. From this vantage point the rear of the radiator is about 18" infront of and just below this bulkhead. Keep in mind where the AD's wing impacted the Mustang. You can fly an airplane without a rudder in a very rudimentary fashion. Without an elevator, you're screwed. In my judgment I can't see how Mr. Davies had any authority over the tails control surfaces.

Regards,
John[/quote][/quote]

Nope. Both cables you point to are the elevator cables.

[ZRX61]

He said "I don't plan on it but here's how it goes.....If we have to exit the aircraft I will say "BAIL OUT....BAIL OUT...BAIL OUT", that's it. By the end of the third bail out I will be out of the aircraft."

Ha ha...I got a similar brief on my first T-6 ride. "If you see me jump out, you might want to follow me..."

"The third time you hear "bail out" it will be an echo because I won't be here"

Or

"If you hear "Eject Eject!" don't say "what?" because you'l be talking to yourself"

[Stephan Wilkinson]

I hate to break it to you but it is not a requirement to be a pilot to know things about formation flying.

I can't believe anybody on this site would type that. Unless by "know things about formation flying" he means knowing that the airplanes are close together... After thousands of hours, a moderate amount of it flying formation when I was at Flying Magazine and did frequent air-to-air photo shoots, I at least know that I know virtually nothing about real, more-than-two-airplanes formation flying.

We recently had a bad GA crash here in the Hudson River Valley of New York, two very experienced lightplane pilots in a Comanche and a Cherokee, flying home together after picking up one of the airplanes from maintenance, and no sooner did they try "formation flying" than they ran into each other and both went in.

It's like riding a motorcycle. Everybody whose brother-in-law "taught them to" thinks they know how to drive a bike. 95 percent of riders in the U. S. haven't a clue.

[the330thbg]

Agreed, mate

Heck I had a heII of a time keeping my SGS Schweitzer in formation 200' behind my Piper Super Cub when I was in my teens.. and we were tethered with a rope!

[Speedy]

In my experience from 20 years ago, I personally found that the formation flying itself was a blast--if not the most work-intensive part of flying. I'd come back from a form flight exhausted, but grinning from ear to ear and wanting to go do it again.

But it's the break up and rendezvous phase that always felt like the most opportunity for error existed because of the relative separation and closure rates. Overshoots and undershoots with the speed differential means that the plane in the window can get bigger a whole lot faster than you anticipate...especially if the 'lead' isn't where they are suppsed to be, or where you anticpate they are going to be when you get there. And the bigger the platform you're flying, the farther out ahead you have to be. Dissimilar platforms are an even bigger issue.

I'm kind of split on the comment about not having to be a pilot to know about formation flying. On one hand, the whole idea behind form flying is the hand/eye coordination of how to maneuver the airplane 'by feel' while keeping your eyes on the lead and maintaining proper separation. That's not a 'book learn' subject, or even an "I've seen it" subject...you kind of have to live it to truly get it. BUT...as a pilot, having another set of eyes in the back seat who knew what to look for and who could act as a functional 'safety observer'....that is priceless. So how can you argue with that?

[warbird2]

I hate to break it to you but it is not a requirement to be a pilot to know things about formation flying.

I can't believe anybody on this site would type that. Unless by "know things about formation flying" he means knowing that the airplanes are close together... After thousands of hours, a moderate amount of it flying formation when I was at Flying Magazine and did frequent air-to-air photo shoots, I at least know that I know virtually nothing about real, more-than-two-airplanes formation flying.

We recently had a bad GA crash here in the Hudson River Valley of New York, two very experienced lightplane pilots in a Comanche and a Cherokee, flying home together after picking up one of the airplanes from maintenance, and no sooner did they try "formation flying" than they ran into each other and both went in.

It's like riding a motorcycle. Everybody whose brother-in-law "taught them to" thinks they know how to drive a bike. 95 percent of riders in the U. S. haven't a clue.

In the military, many crew served airplanes and helicopters fly formation on a daily basis. Just because you might not be the one holding the stick does not mean you do not know much about how it is done. It definately does not mean you are not able to tell when it is done wrong or becomes dangerous. By virtue of being in the position of observing these formation flights on a regular basis, sitting in on all the briefings and debriefings, asking questions and paying attention to what is going on, you will pick things up. You learn how it is done. Maybe you never did but I would think that most people probably would.

Nowhere did I ever say that it qualified you to go rent two Cessnas and go out and PERFORM it. It would still take a lot of instruction and practice.

[warbird2]

BUT...as a pilot, having another set of eyes in the back seat who knew what to look for and who could act as a functional 'safety observer'....that is priceless.

Thank you Speedy. This is exactly what I was trying to say.

[Randy Haskin]

But it's the break up and rendezvous phase

Jeez...Navy guys and their weird words for flying.

[Speedy]

But it's the break up and rendezvous phase

Jeez...Navy guys and their weird words for flying.

Oh, bite me, Air Force.......I forgot...too many syllables for you guys to understand.

You may outrank me now, but I'm still older than you.

[Jack Cook]

You may outrank me now, but I'm still older than you.

ya'll taking body odor

[Speedy]

You may outrank me now, but I'm still older than you.

ya'll taking body odor

OutRANK, not outSTANK.

Somewhere at home I have a picture of both of us in uniform, with him kissing my flightboot in front of a T-28.....

[gary1954]

But it's the break up and rendezvous phase

Jeez...Navy guys and their weird words for flying.

That is a good one Randy, I spit my coffee across my desk, thanks for the laugh

[Dudley Henriques]

But it's the break up and rendezvous phase

Jeez...Navy guys and their weird words for flying.

Oh, bite me, Air Force.......I forgot...too many syllables for you guys to understand.

You may outrank me now, but I'm still older than you.

.................and Air Force pilots have to spend all that extra training time time learning to TAXI too!!! )))))))))
DH

[DaveG]

As part of a Civil Air Patrol/Aerospace Education class I'm taking this summer, I'll get 3 log-able hours in a 172, so I'll wait til after then to comment on formation flying (ahem), but I gotta tell you, I'll be watching the flying a lot closer at TOM than usual and with a lot more insight into what is going on. Been a lot of good info on this thread.

[Jack Cook]

and Air Force pilots have to spend all that extra training time time learning to TAXI too!!!

Send them out to USS Boat and they can taxi around at night on a deck packed with jets, non-skid worn
down, a pitching deck and a 80' drop followed by a big splash