F2G Test Run coming soon...

[robkamm]

were do you guys "hear" this stuff? im always looking for 4360 stuff and search often. i never see anything you guys talk about reguarding this engine? do you know the guys turning the wrenches? just wondering. not sturring up the pot looking for trouble. so dont take this the wrong way please.

[Tim Adams]

were do you guys "hear" this stuff? im always looking for 4360 stuff and search often. i never see anything you guys talk about reguarding this engine? do you know the guys turning the wrenches? just wondering. not sturring up the pot looking for trouble. so dont take this the wrong way please.

I asked for an update on Tri-State Aviation's Facebook page, and they gave it. Engine looks like it's toast.

[F2G_lover]

#57 was stock as recieved from the Navy in 1949. The extended scoop that Cook used in 1949 was on it when he recieved it and "sold" it to Ben. Cook and Dick said that Ben would not make any modifications to it.


This picture of #57 from the Wess Hansen collection of the SARH shows that she still had flaps.



In one of their talks at our SARH Symposium, Dick said that on #74 and #94, they fixed the flaps up and cutoff the hinges that were sticking out.

Kenn

I've actually got a photo of Race 57 at Cook's place dated 9/2/48 when it was still in it's Navy paint scheme. The back of the photo also has F2G-1 NAVY 88458 written on it. They bought it for spares, and it's missing the cowling, the front part of the scoop, and a wheel in the photo. They weren't supposed to ever fly 88458, that's why they swapped the identity with that of Race 84 / 88457 that was destroyed in the '47 Race. Apparently Ben wanted to keep his stock, and so it didn't get a stock Corsair rudder assembly, or the flap modification, or a trick prop like some of the others. I don't think it even got a wing clip. I've also got some original Goodyear engineering drawings of areas modified on Cook's airplanes that came from the estate of a Goodyear engineer.

I'm very disappointed to hear that the engine failed. I was going to go to Oshkosh just to see Race 74. There seem to be so many engine failures lately, what's behind it? Is it the oil? I'm more familiar with cars, and I know that with modern automotive oils they've drastically reduced the amount of zinc and phosphorous additives, and that's caused a lot of failures in older engines with flat tappet cams. Is it that the old guys who knew how to overhaul these things just aren't around anymore? Quality problems with bearings or something?

[Stephan Wilkinson]

As an air-cooled Porsche guy familiar with the ZDDP problem, maybe they should use Brad Penn like I do...

[DB2]

As an air-cooled Porsche guy familiar with the ZDDP problem, maybe they should use Brad Penn like I do...

Oh no, now half of Rennlist is going to invade WIX to instigate a ZDDP debate!!!

- Will
'93 964 (with Brad Penn)

[Stephan Wilkinson]

Nah, I'm a Pelican.

[Lynn Allen]

Wonder if they will be ready in time for Reno??

I hope so, but I doubt it. I feel for those guys. Waiting two plus years for an engine, then it pukes that quickly....

Dang, that was the main reason I wanted to go this year, besides the Ghost and others...

[James D]

Thats just heartbreaking with the motor.
Could they not use a later mark of motor, similar to what was done with Fifi?

Still, at least it did fly and it will be back in the air pretty soon I would hope.

I wish them luck.

[MX304]

Thats just heartbreaking with the motor.
Could they not use a later mark of motor, similar to what was done with Fifi?

Still, at least it did fly and it will be back in the air pretty soon I would hope.

I wish them luck.

Fifi uses R-3350s, the F2-G has a 4360. I don't believe the 4360 ever advanced through very many different dash variants as it was a pretty short lived production compared to the 3350. I know the Sanders have a couple of tricks they do with them on Dreadnaught, but they come from the same shop that built #74's engine.

[James D]

Thats just heartbreaking with the motor.
Could they not use a later mark of motor, similar to what was done with Fifi?

Still, at least it did fly and it will be back in the air pretty soon I would hope.

I wish them luck.

Fifi uses R-3350s, the F2-G has a 4360. I don't believe the 4360 ever advanced through very many different dash variants as it was a pretty short lived production compared to the 3350. I know the Sanders have a couple of tricks they do with them on Dreadnaught, but they come from the same shop that built #74's engine.

Ah, ok thanks - I didn´t realise.

[Tim Adams]

There are at least 53 varients of the 4360, that's enough to keep one busy, but still not as many as the 3350 had.

[CAPFlyer]

Well, here's one thing though - just because it's a 4360 or a 3350 doesn't make it "unreliable". There were versions of both that were fairly reliable engines. The problem is workmanship of the overhaul, workmanship of the original parts, workmanship of the maintenance, and sometimes more important, the actual care of the engine while operating. I'm stating this in generalities, not making any comments about this specific engine.

When I was a Flight Follower for a 121 Freight operator, we had Convair 240's that flew on a regular basis using the R2800-CB16. This is a VERY reliable engine. However, for some reason, they were only getting about 200 hours between overhauls versus the 900+ they should've been getting. Was it the workmanship? Was it the parts? Was it the pilots? Well, first they changed overhaul shops. No change despite paying more because the new shop was further away than the old one. Was it the parts? No, as penny-pinching as they could be, they used only NOS and parts from reputable sources. However, that didn't mean there weren't parts problems. Despite all their attempts (including changing overhaul shops several times) we had a hell of a time getting good overhauls for magnetos for example. I remember one case in particular where the mechanics had to replace a magneto and found that all 4 on the shelf, newly overhauled and yellow tagged within the last 18 months, were no good. 3 had cracked graphite o-rings and the fourth had the gaps out of spec. Thankfully the shop warrantied the work, so they fixed it at no cost. This wasn't a major contributor to the issue though either because the parts themselves weren't bad and usually the mechanics caught bad overhauls before hanging them on the plane. What was the problem was they found the crews weren't flying the power settings spec'd by Air Tahoma and Kelwona Flightcraft for the R2800 on 100LL. This was killing the engines and once the crews started flying 1100HP cruise and limiting takeoff's to 50" wet (vice 56" wet), suddenly the problems went away and the engines weren't getting swapped every other month.

[kennsmithf2g]

The "Whistling Death" website has a picture of 88458 with the scoop extension while in Navy service.

Cook did use it for spare parts....he used all of them!

Kenn

#57 was stock as recieved from the Navy in 1949. The extended scoop that Cook used in 1949 was on it when he recieved it and "sold" it to Ben. Cook and Dick said that Ben would not make any modifications to it.


This picture of #57 from the Wess Hansen collection of the SARH shows that she still had flaps.



In one of their talks at our SARH Symposium, Dick said that on #74 and #94, they fixed the flaps up and cutoff the hinges that were sticking out.

Kenn

I've actually got a photo of Race 57 at Cook's place dated 9/2/48 when it was still in it's Navy paint scheme. The back of the photo also has F2G-1 NAVY 88458 written on it. They bought it for spares, and it's missing the cowling, the front part of the scoop, and a wheel in the photo. They weren't supposed to ever fly 88458, that's why they swapped the identity with that of Race 84 / 88457 that was destroyed in the '47 Race. Apparently Ben wanted to keep his stock, and so it didn't get a stock Corsair rudder assembly, or the flap modification, or a trick prop like some of the others. I don't think it even got a wing clip. I've also got some original Goodyear engineering drawings of areas modified on Cook's airplanes that came from the estate of a Goodyear engineer.

I'm very disappointed to hear that the engine failed. I was going to go to Oshkosh just to see Race 74. There seem to be so many engine failures lately, what's behind it? Is it the oil? I'm more familiar with cars, and I know that with modern automotive oils they've drastically reduced the amount of zinc and phosphorous additives, and that's caused a lot of failures in older engines with flat tappet cams. Is it that the old guys who knew how to overhaul these things just aren't around anymore? Quality problems with bearings or something?

[F2G_lover]

Could you post a link? I'm not familiar with the "Whistling Death" website.

[garbs]

robkamm wrote:

were do you guys "hear" this stuff? im always looking for 4360 stuff and search often. i never see anything you guys talk about reguarding this engine? do you know the guys turning the wrenches? just wondering. not sturring up the pot looking for trouble. so dont take this the wrong way please.

I saw Bob at the Warbirds picnic at OSH Sunday night. Would love to get out the see their set up in ND, but haven't yet.