Bald Eagle Aviation

[Jim Beasley]

Thanks Richard that's great.

Hi,

Regarding putting the Griffon 58 into a Spitfire, this link might prove useful:

http://www.caa.co.uk/aandocs/21819/21819000000.pdf

Kind regards,

Rich Woods

[Richard Woods]

No problem. Have you spoke to the Rolls Royce Heritage Trust at Derby, UK, yet? The engineers there that work on their Spitfire PR. XIX and the XIV are pretty hot on the subject.

Also... any history on your engine? The reason I ask is it's possibly one of the bunch that were rebuilt by the engine bay at Lossiemouth at the end of the Shackleton's RAF service (same place our new No 2 engine on the Shackleton came from). They set themselves the task that they would have no unserviceable Griffons left. One of ours is marked under the number on the dishpan 'penultimate' and another 'last!'

It's cool to see all the photo's of the stripdown, the cowlings and structure around them are so intricate. I'm going to point a few of our guys at this thread as they'll be interested.

Regards,

Rich

[Iclo]

Hi,

Thanks for the pictures and update.

I suppose it's the same modification that Plane Of Fame had planned for the Spit they used to have ? Finaly, they installed the engine but with the contrarotative propeller.
(This Spit is now based in France and was fitted 2 years ago with a classicl single prop 5 blades)

Regards

Loïc

[Invader26]

Re the contra-Spit, Jose from Vintage V-12's converted the -58 to run the 5 blade prop.

[51fixer]

Re the contra-Spit, Jose from Vintage V-12's converted the -58 to run the 5 blade prop.

Jose told Jim the French mk 19 had a Mk 74 Hybrid engine built up and they pulled the Mk 58 that POF installed.
At least thats the story we were told.

[Lynn Allen]

Re the contra-Spit, Jose from Vintage V-12's converted the -58 to run the 5 blade prop.

Jose told Jim the French mk 19 had a Mk 74 Hybrid engine built up and they pulled the Mk 58 that POF installed.
At least thats the story we were told.

Rich, can you change out the nose cases of the Mk engines from the contra to single blade like you can for the 3350 slow noses, etc or do you have to have a select Mk for the single 5 blade?

Thanks

[Invader26]

from Jose its a hybrid -58 with -74 nose case.

[51fixer]

Re the contra-Spit, Jose from Vintage V-12's converted the -58 to run the 5 blade prop.

Jose told Jim the French mk 19 had a Mk 74 Hybrid engine built up and they pulled the Mk 58 that POF installed.
At least thats the story we were told.

Rich, can you change out the nose cases of the Mk engines from the contra to single blade like you can for the 3350 slow noses, etc or do you have to have a select Mk for the single 5 blade?

Thanks

The 58 is derived from the 57 and there is also a design called the 5900 which was a single prop shaft while the 57 and 58 were the contra prop setups. These all were based on the same design and layout with the prop shaft set up being the only variation. The 5900 didn't seem to make it to production. I suspect it was a commercial offering in a RR power plant design, think Shackelton engine, nacelle and radiator set up but with a single prop shaft and maybe 4 of them on an airliner.

The 60 series of the Griffon along with the Mk 74 are also a family series with different nosecase gearing, slight differences in the supercharger and your choice of Bendix carb or British Injection Fuel system. These all had a single prop shaft, intercooler and the same crankcase and nosecase housing.

Some differences that come to mind-
65 has 510 nosecase gears (turns faster and sports the smaller 5 blade prop), Bendix carb and runs at 18 lbs boost with 2030 hp.
66 is the same but has an extra gear in the nosecase to run a blower to pressurize the cockpit of the high altitude PR XIX.
67 has some alterations in the carb and cams to run 25 lbs of boost and get around 2350 hp.
74 has 471 nosecase gears (slower turning and runs a larger 4 blade prop), British injection carb and fuel pump, different cam.

To run a 60 series nosecase on a 58 takes a bit of doing as they have a different size outline. The gear set up and mounting location for the cabin blower on the PR XIX is present on all the 60 series and 74 crankcases and nosecases. It just isn't installed.
On the 58 there isn't any provision and the casting doesn't have the material for it. The 58 also has internal oil galleys for some of the oil feeds that are external lines on the 60 series. To bolt up a 60 series nosecase to a 58 will take some doing in the engineering and fabrication dept.

[51fixer]

Make a note.
Everything is cowled and flyable, for the moment.
Hopefully I'll be able to find some time to share the rest of the story.

[Lynn Allen]

Rich, outstanding feedback as always... Thanks

Lynn

[51fixer]

Make a note.
Everything is cowled and flyable, for the moment.
Hopefully I'll be able to find some time to share the rest of the story.

A bit on BE-
Did a 50 hr service on the engine-
Drained oil.

Pulled the cam racks for insp.

I found one valve that showed material erosion in the way of small chips broken off on the exhaust on B-4.
That meant pulling a bank.


The valve was then removed.
Photo shows valve tip and adjuster which was marred by the sharp edge left on the valve.

While the the bank was off I noticed that most of the top rings in the pistons were partially or almost completely stuck in the grooves.

This meant the other bank needed to be pulled and Roush supplied us with a new set of their latest design of pistons and rings.
It also meant a road trip for Roush employee Karl Bausman, seen here leaning on the wing watching as I run the P-51 after the work.

More engine runs.

All hands preparing BE.

Jim roaring off to check out the new set up.

[51fixer]

Rich, can you change out the nose cases of the Mk engines from the contra to single blade like you can for the 3350 slow noses, etc or do you have to have a select Mk for the single 5 blade?

Thanks

The 58 is derived from the 57 and there is also a design called the 5900 which was a single prop shaft while the 57 and 58 were the contra prop setups. These all were based on the same design and layout with the prop shaft set up being the only variation. The 5900 didn't seem to make it to production. I suspect it was a commercial offering in a RR power plant design, think Shackelton engine, nacelle and radiator set up but with a single prop shaft and maybe 4 of them on an airliner.

The 60 series of the Griffon along with the Mk 74 are also a family series with different nosecase gearing, slight differences in the supercharger and your choice of Bendix carb or British Injection Fuel system. These all had a single prop shaft, intercooler and the same crankcase and nosecase housing.

Some differences that come to mind-
65 has 510 nosecase gears (turns faster and sports the smaller 5 blade prop), Bendix carb and runs at 18 lbs boost with 2030 hp.
66 is the same but has an extra gear in the nosecase to run a blower to pressurize the cockpit of the high altitude PR XIX.
67 has some alterations in the carb and cams to run 25 lbs of boost and get around 2350 hp.
74 has 471 nosecase gears (slower turning and runs a larger 4 blade prop), British injection carb and fuel pump, different cam.

To run a 60 series nosecase on a 58 takes a bit of doing as they have a different size outline. The gear set up and mounting location for the cabin blower on the PR XIX is present on all the 60 series and 74 crankcases and nosecases. It just isn't installed.
On the 58 there isn't any provision and the casting doesn't have the material for it. The 58 also has internal oil galleys for some of the oil feeds that are external lines on the 60 series. To bolt up a 60 series nosecase to a 58 will take some doing in the engineering and fabrication dept.

Looked in the AP2234K&L Volume I manual and the genealogy goes-

Griffon 61
Prop Gearing .451 to 1
2 speed, 2 stage blower with 5.84 and 7.58 to 1 ratios
Boost 18 psi
Bendix 9.T.40/1 Carb

This splits in 2 groups-

Group 1-

Griffon 65 is the same as above with Prop Gearing being .51 to 1

Griffon 66 is the same as a 65 with the addition of the cabin blower drive.

Group 2-

Griffon 64 is the same as a 61 but has a modified Boost Regulator, Ignition Timing Device, Ignition Timing Controls, Increased Capacity Oil Pump and a different CSU or Prop Gov.
This allows 25 psi boost (80+ inches of manifold Pressure)

Griffon 67 is the same as a 64 but with .51 to 1 Prop Gearing

Griffon 69 is the same as a 64 but has modified rear feet mounting for booms with extra flexibility.

The 74 has .451 to 1 Prop Gearing
Supercharger gears of 5.167 and 6.79 to 1, different cam, and the RR Mk2 Series C Fuel Injection Carburation along with matching Automatic Boost Controller.

[51fixer]

The Spit has been a problem child as well-
I got the coolant outlet connector onions changed. They connect the head to the header tank.

We had the cams out and dealt with some issues there as well as well as a mag that was showing its age.
The B points had a broken spring. 3 laminations are stock but 1 broke during ground runs.

I inspected and tested the mag from the shackleton QEC and installed it. It was O/Hed in 1990 with coils from 1986 and 1990.
The removed mag has coils and condensers from the late 1960s and early 70s.

I did many ground runs and adjustments.



Also needed a night run-



Then it was Jims turn to go flying-



TO

Landing

[51fixer]

Jim will fly both BE and the Spit next Wed at Atlantic City for the Thunder Over the Boardwalk Air Show. I believe there is some practice flown Tues as well.

[CAPFlyer]

How's he getting both of them there? He's one guy unless you've figured out how to safely radio control one of the two....