Best movie attack/combat scene

Dan K · **Posted:** Sun Aug 21, 2011 9:26 pm

Stoney wrote:

Well for me, I wonder why, its the start of "Catch 22" having done it 4 times

As far as best take-off and landing scenes go, it'd be hard to beat these two (Not exactly aerial combat though):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=xATn1MagKx0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggdFzq20f4g

Randy Haskin · **Posted:** Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:56 pm

The night attacks in Flight of the Intruder, showing the AAA and SAMs in flight, make my pulse go up make me sweat a little.

For those of you who have not had the pleasure of seeing this stuff for real...they nailed it.

(Not referring to the obvious soundstage shots of the AAA guns and scale model SAM launches from the ground, though....haha).

Randy Haskin · **Posted:** Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:59 pm

Stoney wrote:

Well for me, I wonder why, its the start of "Catch 22" having done it 4 times

I think the long shot of the squadron all flying away together is fantastic.

JDK · **Posted:** Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:15 am

Dave Homewood wrote:

I agree that the Mustang strafing sequence in Empire of the Sun is really spectacular and thrilling to watch and must have been bloody amazing to have been on set when they filmed it, although in reality it is apparently not all real aircraft, with CGI and models cleverly unterwoven into the secene according to IMDb.

AFAIK, as Steve's already said, the strafing scene is all real and partly New Zealanders, Dave.

Mark Hanna wrote an article on the filming for Warbirds Worldwide, including learning about bomb dropping with concrete bombs. If it's of interest I can dig it out and post details. Can't do any harm as WW, Paul Coggan and Mark Hanna are all no longer with us.

Quote:

I have to wonder if strafing ever was done that dangerously low though, it sees a bit foolhardy to fly at ten feet in terrain you're not familiar with, especially in a place that shoots back.

I don't believe there's any reason to believe strafing did not commonly occur as absolutely low as possible in W.W.II. In fact if you were low enough you were 'safer' from being shot at due to the guns being unable to depress enough, traverse quickly enough or find 'you' through the ground features and so forth. "If you can't get high, get low".

Regards,

Dave Homewood · **Posted:** Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:44 am

Thanks James. Since I initially posted about that scene I have watched the 'making of' documentary called China Oddysey, which i must say is a really fascinating documentary. I shows the pilots practicing dropping a fake bomb from a Mustang sitting on the ground to check the mechanism, and it goes into the scene in reasonable detail, including the models in the scene. There definately were both real and 1/3rd scale Mustangs in the attack scene, so IMDb is right. They seem to have built 1/3rd scale hangars to match the scene.

Christian Bale mucked up his acting in that scene which was designed to be one long take with the real Mustangs and explosions, and they had to rapidly re-set cameras and do impromtu takes before the real hangars had completely burned down. So i suspect some of the cutaways with the models were maybe not always intended. I also wonder if the slow shot with Ray Hanna in the Mustang was origianlly to be in the script. I do remember he said in a NZ TV interview it was not meant to be him in that scene till last minute, Spielberg got him to do it as he thought an older face would represent a father figure character more, as Jim was relating to him so closely.

Also in that doco James Ballard stated that he recalled standing on the second floor of the POW camp building and looking down on the Mustangs strafing the runway. So obviously that is accurate indeed. I guess on a runway it's ok, in a town not so much. I often think about how a very experienced pilot from my town here, Don Taylor, lost his life strafing a railway station in his Spitfire, when he hit a lamp post on one of the strafing runs. He was simply too low and ran out of luck I guess.

I'd love to see that article please.

JDK · **Posted:** Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:04 am

The confusion may be that Mark Hanna's account is based on their involvement in the shoot, where there definitely wouldn't be any models mixed in!

I've found the article, it was in Warbirds Worldwide No.2. Pilots were Ray and Mark Hanna, and 'Hoof' Proudfoot, all sadly no longer with us. Support was by Lee Proudfoot and Paul Mercer, the filming 'aerial co-oprdinator' the infamous John 'Jeff' Hawke, also long gone. Now there's a character for a biography.

The bombs were plaster loaded, and test drops were also carried out in flight before the shoot.

More critically as to the 'realism' of the scene, Mark says their preferred speed of 250-300 kts was 'too fast' for the cameras, so it was shot at (and I'd presume run in the film at) a slower 200-250 kts. In reality, strafing runs would be at 300kts plus, I'd expect, aiming to be somewhere else by the time you were spotted. One key difference between films and the reality of ground attack is that generally it was over and the aircraft gone by the time the guys on the ground realised what was up. Coming back for a second attack was a very bad move for that reason; you were expected.

Mark's account reads as Ray's 'slow' pass at 150 kts being in the original script.

I'll scan, sort and post the article later.

Regards,

billtate · **Posted:** Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:09 am

Quote:

He comes by it honest Bill, his daddy, Arnold Spielberg served in the CBI in WW2 with the 490th BS, 341st BS, Burma Bridge Busters and was an avid photographer while serving there...I'd love to see those photo albums. We discussed him a bit a while back in the FHC B-25 thread.

Thanks Airnutz, for the insight into Steven Spielberg and his father Arnold. Arnold's story was very interesting and when Steven attended a reunion with his father I bet he got a lot of ideas. I hope Steven makes a movie with B-25s as the center piece.
Cheers Bill

Steve Nelson · **Posted:** Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:41 am

The only model shot I could spot with any certainty in the strafing sequence was when one of the Mustangs is going down trailing smoke, and clearly has no inner gear doors.

As for low-level strafing, that was what brought down Gabreski. He was strafing a Luftwaffe airfield, and trying to bring his guns to bear on a parked aircraft when his prop hit the ground. He managed to pull up and make it another couple miles before bellying in.

SN

Chris Brame · **Posted:** Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:23 pm

Quote:

Christian Bale mucked up his acting in that scene which was designed to be one long take with the real Mustangs and explosions, and they had to rapidly re-set cameras and do impromtu takes before the real hangars had completely burned down.

Did he throw a tantrum and blame the crew? :lol:

Dave Homewood · **Posted:** Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:23 pm

Of course not Chris, back then he was a polite little Welsh boy, it was before he'd gone all Hollywood.

PJ01 · **Joined:** Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:26 pm **Posts:** 9

I'm glad someone finally said "Catch~22". Here are several more with aerial battle scenes from one of the best ever to the last one made in Japan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKBoHlDB ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkQ3isbT ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuCdnZVZyE4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfv-19f8 ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Efc6Y6LCuuc

For Those We Love {A Japanese look inward}
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVlZizY_ubw

Don't forget the spectacular flying scenes in "The Great Waldo Pepper". If I scratch my head a little I might remember more.

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Best movie attack/combat scene

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