Warbird Information Exchange

Without hopefully pissing anyone off, which for some strange reason seems to happen here at times. I'm not looking for trouble, but I have to admit it can be intimidating to post on WIX if you don't have thick skin, of which I guess I don't. Staying away in the background has always been safe for me. So here it goes! This is a question I have wondered for a long time.

I seem to think that with each year there seems to be an increase in NEW WARBIRD restorations. As opposed to a decrease. What is your opinion? I'm aware of the poor economy and ever more seeming restrictions and apathy from "Joe public" towards the warbird community, but I keep hearing and seeing new restorations occuring worldwide. Could this be true? Yes this is another year of more than usual warbird losses, but take the P-51 for example, does it seem there are more restorations in progress than any other recent year or years? And it also seems to me that many warbirds that have been, for lack of better words, mothballed, are coming out into the sun again. I'm just a simple guy curious about this theory. I would love to think I'm in the "right" on this, but that's just me. I see these wonderful restorations all around the world with the real warbirds and great replica's of real warbirds and I think it's wonderful. I truely believe in possibly my lifetime that I may see exciting restorations and replica's of some of the aircraft we never thought we would see fly again. I think the warbird movement is strong, ambitious, smart, extremely talented, and that over my many years of appreciation for all things "warbird" has the smartest group of enthusiasts I have ever seen. I'm impressed with the poeple involved with restorations, I'm impressed with the dedication and courage to take on very rare restorations, i.e. Allen, Lewis, etc. and I think it not too much a stretch to think we could possibly see a Stuka, Me110, Typhoon, etc. in the air someday. I salute the owners, pilots, restorers and formost the enthusiasts, for without people who care and enjoy warbirds, there would probably be no need to have them anymore.

thoughts?

Considering the fact that 30 years ago the entire flyable warbird fleet was forecast to be grounded by 2010, I believe your views are spot on.

Thanks for posting. Allow me to get the first round.


ps. Always be prepared for the likes of Mudge or old iron to rake you over the coals for any errors in grammar, punctuation, and spelling. It's how they reach out to newcomers.

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It was a good idea, it just didn't work.

Well, now I feel slighted. No one gave me a slam when I was a newbie.... May be thet wuz cuz my spell in an grammar ar korect....

That last sentence was for Mudge the speller

I agree with Ploesti. My business is split between warbird wiring and industrial automation. Last year was by far my best year thus far in both areas. So much for a bad economy, at least in my perception.

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Without wires, it won't work.

about 10 years ago i was talking to Nelson Ezell, and he said he thought that there were more warbirds getting airborn each year than ever before. well he is still restoring his share, and so are a lot of other GREAT shops around the country, and several around the world. i'm very glad those with the money choose to put some of it toward warbirds. welcome Ploesti, and don't lurk, POST. i've wanted to read more about the various projects for a long time.

Ploesti,

You have somehow been reading my mind. I mean if I did not read the author was someone other than me, I would have wondered when did I post this. Not only do I love your thoughts the effect of the economy has on the Warbird movement and recent crashes, but one day to see an ME-110 and/or Stuka fly again are prayers I have been asking since I was a little boy back in the 70's. Back then I dreamed of seeing real Bf109's, FW-190's and Zero's and now we have several.

I think with the new build Flug Werk 190's and Stormbirds Me-262's that once this economy turns around we will see the 110 and 87 fly again along with more 109's, Zero's, Yaks, and maybe a Do-17 or Ju-88.....

Great Question/Topic!

I agree with your statements, but engines will be the driving factor concerning the flying of some types (if they want the original engines).

Not only are warbirds restorers doing some exciting stuff, but so is the antique civil aircraft world (yes, I know they're not warbirds, but hear me out).

Over the last few years, some extinct airworthy types have been made flying again....the DH 4 mailplane (which is a warbird), a Boeing 40, the #3 Stearman ever built, and lesser known lightplanes from aviation's "Golden age".
Don't dismiss the importance of these planes to our history...some of the pilots who flew them went onto fly in WWII, and perhaps more importantly, they inspired the model-building, Popular Avaition-reading, Sky King-listening, movie-going (Wings, Hell's Angles, Hell Divers, Devil dogs of the Air, Only Angles have Wings, etc) airplane crazy kids of the 20s and 30s to fly in the war.

I follow the latest old civil airplane news at this (non commercial) site: http://www.antiqueairfield.com/

Not too bad...hopefully we can keep getting AVGAS for them in the future.

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Remember the vets, the wonderful planes they flew and their sacrifices for a future many of them did not live to see.
Note political free signature.
I figure if you wanted my opinion on items unrelated to this forum, you'd ask for it.

Point well taken which brings up a question, I'm sure there are engine shops only folks out there, but are there rare engine restorer's only shops out there? I wonder if there would be a market for such an endever? I'm sure the answer would be "no" due to the lack of business, but once a client on the likes of Paul Allen came along I would imagine such a shop would be extremely happy and I would assume could make a nice sum by doing all the research, tooling, craftsmanship etc. etc., In other words if a deep pocket client came along and suggested money is no object I'm sure any power plant could be brought back to life. has this been done? I know the FHC FW190 is an example, but has extremely rare engines been brought back to life in recent years?

Thoughts?

An additional question: what would you think is the most expensive and time consuming aspect of an overall rare warbird restoration? is it the probable original power plant restoration or is it the airframe? An example I can think of would be a Stuka. If an original Stuka was found, just like, and in the same condition, as the FHC FW190 was found, what would be more difficult, and especially more expensive, the engine or airframe? Just wondering for my simple mind of thought.

And sorry in advance if my questions aren't as exciting, educated and informative as the "what movie attack/combat scene" thread seems to be. i wonder am I posting in the wrong location? Where do the adults post?

Seems to me the "adult" thing to do would have been to have a little patience and wait for some thoughful replies rather than inject sarcasm right away, but that's just me. Sarcastic and belligerent posts are part of what have kept some really great people away from WIX of late...

For what it's worth, I would think that rare engines would be more of a problem than rare airframes. Harder to replicate the castings and such of a rare type or one that no longer exists than it is to replicate an airframe I would think. But I'm just speaking from an observer's point of view, not one of an actual restorer of aircraft.

Zack

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Curator - EAA Aviation Museum, Oshkosh, WI
"Let No Story Go Untold!"
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You can include me in that "great people away from WIX" statement, I've been waiting threee or four pages for thoughtful replies. And just so your not too confused I was not too serious about the above post. Sorry to disrespect Nathan.

No disrespect taken. It's just that humor and sarcasm rarely translate well on the Internets.

Best to use smilies when making when possible to help folks know when you are being serious or not.

Zack

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Curator - EAA Aviation Museum, Oshkosh, WI
"Let No Story Go Untold!"
http://www.timelessvoices.org

May be like the collector car world where when the economy takes a crap people put their money into collector cars instead of the stock market...

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Those who possess real knowledge are rare.

Those who can set that knowledge into motion in the physical world are rarer still.

The few who possess real knowledge and can set it into motion of their own hands are the rarest of all.

Certainly the Vintage Aviator in New Zealand's recreation of a Great War Oberusel rotary engine is an example. The TVAL website gives a great insight into the various challenges faced for what is, fundamentally a 'simpler, earlier' combat aircraft engine. Consider the increased challenges for a W.W.II combat type engine.

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/projects ... ld-history

If I get a chance I'll try a longer response with further thoughts.

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James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com

Beyond Messerschmitts, one of my deep abiding passions is for the "Silver Arrows" of the 1930s... the magnificent Auto Unions and Mercedes racers which absolutely dominated the racetracks of the world through technological prowess and driving brilliance. There is a group in England which has recreated an A-Type, C-Type and rebuilt a D-Type, and they are utterly magnificent... what makes this so amazing, and relevant to this topic, is that the engineering firm actually completely built a 1930s Auto Union 16-cylinder engine from scratch, casting new blocks, heads, pistons, everything. The cost must have been ungodly- the effort was financed by Audi themselves- but the point is, the technology exists to create a small production run (or large run!) of DB 601s or Jumo 211s or Napier Sabres, for that matter. All it requires is cubic dollars. Like others, the idea of seeing a Bf 110 or Ju 87 at an airshow is no longer just a pipe dream- seeing the pics of the Fw 190A-5 and Bf 109E-4 in formation last month was just jaw-dropping, and gives me hope we may yet see other extinct types return to the air.

All it takes is money, after all...

Lynn

Ploesti...interesting you should ask that. (As far as I'm concerned, that is.) Every time I see something posted about "another whatever" had it's first flight today, I keep saying, "Where are all these airframes coming from?" We sometimes get reports about a new "whatever" being restored here or there, so we kinda' expect to hear about those in stages. But lately it's out of the blue there's a new thingamajig flying.

Mudge the dialectician and grammarian

That close was for you, Jeff.

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Land of the free because of the brave