Known P-51B/C Wrecks

[AHancock51]

Hello gang! Just curious to see what known P-51B/C model wrecks there are out there. I remember seeing a thread about Alaskan wrecks and was just curious as to what is out there to be discovered. Thanks!

[L. Thompson]

Here's the two P-51B/C possibles that have most intrigued me as I toss and turn some restless nights...

Quoting Mr. Shade Ruff from an April 11, 2006 WIX post:

"Last June's amazing news that P-47D "Dottie Mae" was recovered from an Austrian lake in rather good condition caused me to wonder if the same might also hold true for 2nd Lt Ralph "Kidd" Hofer's P-51B - 43-6946 (QP-L) - lost on 5 April 1944 after it crashed into a lake near Potsdam, Germany. His plane, piloted that day by fellow 4th Fighter Group officer 1st Lt Allen F. Bunte, had struck a high-tension wire while on a strafing run near the Gardelegen, Germany aerodrome to the west of Potsdam.
Bunte managed to extricate himself from the submerged Mustang's cockpit and to make it to shore where he was quickly taken POW. He would later be repatriated.
Who's up for another recovery operation? Having lived in Germany for well over a decade (to include in nearby Berlin), I can serve as the German interpreter."

The second possibility is a P-51B that for the record crashed in Sept. 1948. This P-51B,43-24760 was owned by Jacqueline Cochran.
Mike Coutches of Hayward, CA has long been rumored to have this damaged airplane in storage, some say in Indio, CA.

John Slack has said the following in a couple of Internet posts that caught my attention:

"For race fans that don't know her husband was very influential in government circles. She also stated during that event (Lyle Shelton's 15-KM Speed Record attempt in 1973) that the P-51C she had flown was disassembled and in storage somewhere in a warehouse they owned. Don't know where though, but if I did I still wouldn't tell."

"...I don't think it was destroyed, from the description of the condition it was disassembled for repair work on the wing and just never was put back together. as for the location............Ralph Payne and I were on a couple of treasure hunts at the time of his passing. My last talk with him in the hospital in Phoenix was a nice visit and I truly did not think it would be my last visit with him. Ralph had some interesting ideas regarding that and another airplane. We respected the fact that those airplanes we were looking for belonged in the Smithsonian, or The EAA, and not in our opinion a private collection and were looking for the planes to preserve what they were. So I have some thoughts but nothing that would make ready to go play "Aviation Indianna Jones" ..."






Above is the P-51B-15-NA ,43-24760, NX28388 at Prescott, AZ right after surplus sale to
Jacqueline Cochran, of Los Angeles, CA.
My Dad (in the cockpit of the one photo) was to ferry it (by Charlie Tucker's recommendation to Jackie) to Van Nuys. and spent an hour or so taxiing it and getting familiar (his first time in a P-51) before another ferry pilot showed up who took away his golden opportunity. It became Cochran's Bendix Racer #13.

[AHancock51]

Here's the two P-51B/C possibles that have most intrigued me as I toss and turn some restless nights...

Quoting Mr. Shade Ruff from an April 11, 2006 WIX post:

"Last June's amazing news that P-47D "Dottie Mae" was recovered from an Austrian lake in rather good condition caused me to wonder if the same might also hold true for 2nd Lt Ralph "Kidd" Hofer's P-51B - 43-6946 (QP-L) - lost on 5 April 1944 after it crashed into a lake near Potsdam, Germany. His plane, piloted that day by fellow 4th Fighter Group officer 1st Lt Allen F. Bunte, had struck a high-tension wire while on a strafing run near the Gardelegen, Germany aerodrome to the west of Potsdam.
Bunte managed to extricate himself from the submerged Mustang's cockpit and to make it to shore where he was quickly taken POW. He would later be repatriated.
Who's up for another recovery operation? Having lived in Germany for well over a decade (to include in nearby Berlin), I can serve as the German interpreter."

The second possibility is a P-51B that for the record crashed in Sept. 1948. This P-51B,43-24760 was owned by Jacqueline Cochran.
Mike Coutches of Hayward, CA has long been rumored to have this damaged airplane in storage, some say in Indio, CA.

John Slack has said the following in a couple of Internet posts that caught my attention:

"For race fans that don't know her husband was very influential in government circles. She also stated during that event (Lyle Shelton's 15-KM Speed Record attempt in 1973) that the P-51C she had flown was disassembled and in storage somewhere in a warehouse they owned. Don't know where though, but if I did I still wouldn't tell."

"...I don't think it was destroyed, from the description of the condition it was disassembled for repair work on the wing and just never was put back together. as for the location............Ralph Payne and I were on a couple of treasure hunts at the time of his passing. My last talk with him in the hospital in Phoenix was a nice visit and I truly did not think it would be my last visit with him. Ralph had some interesting ideas regarding that and another airplane. We respected the fact that those airplanes we were looking for belonged in the Smithsonian, or The EAA, and not in our opinion a private collection and were looking for the planes to preserve what they were. So I have some thoughts but nothing that would make ready to go play "Aviation Indianna Jones" ..."






Above is the P-51B-15-NA ,43-24760, NX28388 at Prescott, AZ right after surplus sale to
Jacqueline Cochran, of Los Angeles, CA.
My Dad (in the cockpit of the one photo) was to ferry it (by Charlie Tucker's recommendation to Jackie) to Van Nuys. and spent an hour or so taxiing it and getting familiar (his first time in a P-51) before another ferry pilot showed up who took away his golden opportunity. It became Cochran's Bendix Racer #13.

Very cool!!! Thanks for the info. I also sent you a PM

[marine air]

I was wondering the same thing. I love the B and C's so much, I can't tell you which one is the "best" . Fell in love with "Excalibur" at the Smithsonian when visiting in 1980. A year or two later saw a 400 knot buzz job at Lake Lawn (during Oshkosh) by "Shangra La".
Hopefully, a couple more will surface to be restored. Kermit's "Ina Belle" was the Belle of the Ball when it arrived at Gathering of Mustangs a couple of years ago. They are all truly awesome.

[maxum96]

I used to be a real hardcore fan of the D models. But over the last few years I've absolutely fallen in love with the B/C models. I really like the Princess Elizabeth P-51. Probably doesn't hurt that my grandfather was with the 352FG (also known as the "Blue Nosed Bastards of Bodney") in England and Belgium. He was support staff.

[dollar65]

There might be the possibility of a Mustang III buried in Normandy.

On June 22nd, 1944, Warrant Officer Tamowicz, from 315 Polish squadron, crash-landed Mustang III serial FZ147 in a swamp after a straffing mission in the Cherbourg area. I don't know the exact location, but he crashed in the vicinity of an american landing stripe under construction, as his leader, E. Horbaczewski landed there, borrowed a jeep, recovered the wounded pilot, and flew him back to England in a very crowded Mustang cockpit (another account said that in fact the pilot walked from the crash site to the landing stripe where is leader was waiting for him).

It seems the plane disappeared in a few minutes, that the place is no longer a swamp but a field, and that an unsuccessful recovery attempt might have taken place in the mid-90s by locals. Hopefully someone knowing more than I do might be reading this, and telling us more on the subject. If the plane is still there, I hope it will be rescued someday.

Laurent

[AHancock51]

There might be the possibility of a Mustang III buried in Normandy.

On June 22nd, 1944, Warrant Officer Tamowicz, from 315 Polish squadron, crash-landed Mustang III serial FZ147 in a swamp after a straffing mission in the Cherbourg area. I don't know the exact location, but he crashed in the vicinity of an american landing stripe under construction, as his leader, E. Horbaczewski landed there, borrowed a jeep, recovered the wounded pilot, and flew him back to England in a very crowded Mustang cockpit (another account said that in fact the pilot walked from the crash site to the landing stripe where is leader was waiting for him).

It seems the plane disappeared in a few minutes, that the place is no longer a swamp but a field, and that an unsuccessful recovery attempt might have taken place in the mid-90s by locals. Hopefully someone knowing more than I do might be reading this, and telling us more on the subject. If the plane is still there, I hope it will be rescued someday.

Laurent

Thanks for the info! Did not know about this one, would be neat to learn more!

[Jack Cook]

Talking to JCW who's been flying the CF TP-51C this past summer he says it blind has a bat
and when that canopy is shut you can barely move around with only a couple inches left-right
head movement I guess that explains why the malcolm hood was so popular.

[T J Johansen]

Last year while in L.A. I found myself at the library going through old newspapers on a different subject. One article I did note however was the LA Times report on the demise of Jacqueline Cochran's B model. It crashed in a farmer's field on the ferry flight back to CA after the races, killing the pilot. Unfortunately the note doesn't include a photo of the accident scene to give an idea to the extent of damage. I am trying to get a clipping from the local paper in the area where the 51 went down, hopefully it can give more insight to the accident.

T J