Let's blaspheme some more warbird owners

[Jack Cook]

I think my biggest gripe is about museums and owners who say there honoring the great
men who flew and maintained these machines. At the same time the paint job(s) is way
out there. If you're not doing it right is it really honoring or just saying the words and patting
yourself on the back??

[CAPFlyer]

Jack,

Until they also say that those markings are 100% authentic and correct, I don't see the hypocrisy. I know several operators who go out of their way to state that the markings are "REPRESENTATIVE OF THE TYPE" or something of that ilk acknowledging that their markings aren't 100% accurate. When that's the case, we, as the non-operators, have no room to tell them that they're wrong. We can have an opinion and not like them, but there's a big difference in saying "I don't like the scheme" and "the scheme is wrong". This is the thing I'm getting at in both threads - you guys are loosing the plot and confusing the two. I have no problem with people saying "I don't like that big nose art. I'd rather see it in an authentic scheme". I have a problem with people saying "that scheme is wrong. It shouldn't have the big nose art and it should have "TEST" in flourescent orange instead." If anyone can't tell the difference between the two and the fact that one is an opinion and the other is an attack on the person who owns the plane, then maybe they should consider just not posting. I hate to put it that way, but that's the way you and others are coming off when you type and why people are rankled by your constant defense of that kind of behavior.

Last edited by CAPFlyer on Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Jack Cook]

I remember taliking to Bill Speer by his 2 P-51Ds shortly before he was killed in Deja Vu.
We were talking about paint schemes and told ne to admit I liked Pegasis better because it was
all painted up pretty and shining. I said no I liked Deja Vu because it looked like a war machine.
He just smiled and said "I do to!".
Once again I justy say that not liking a paint scheme or pointing out errors isn't a personal attack
so it's time to grow a thicker skin or just lighten up a bit and just for Ober I'll end this by saying that
I still tink the tramp stamps are ugly has sin!

[Dan Johnson II]

I can understand the frustration if someone comes in and says 'that paint job is wrong!"

I don't see a problem with someone asking if there is a reason for a particular paint scheme. I get it. It's their bird and their money. I know I asked about the paint scheme on a recent Mustang restoration here. Not because I was trying to tell someone what to do, but because it confused me and I was curious if there was a reason for it.

[gary1954]

ahem... Ahem... Yes it tis Eye again…. To all Warbird Owners/Operators....worldwide and to any curator of any static displayed aircraft, for the record on my own behalf, Thank you for preserving these airframes of our aviation heritage. First, I kiss no one’s A double SS and this isn't A double SS kissin' time either...this is how I feel about this whole (or hole) subject of which some seem to be blowing a head gasket Yes it tis Eye again….To all Warbird Owners/Operators....worldwide and to any curator of any static displayed aircraft, for the record on my own behalf, Thank you for preserving these airframes of our aviation heritage. First, I kiss no one’s A double SS and this isn't A double SS kissin' time either...this is how I feel about this whole (or hole) subject some seem to be blowing a head gasket over. Personally, I do not care how you paint an aircraft in-so-far-as color or method (spray/brush/paint filled balloons, however you want to), couldn't give a tinkers Dayum in any way, shape, form, or fashion, Invasion Stripes, No Invasion Stripes, Don't care...I just love seeing these airframes on the flight line and in the air...God bless you for doing things right to be able to afford operating these flying machines, to include continued funding for the non flying currently under restoration / in storage / or on static display.

Now, if you are going to enter an aircraft in a contest which is one of accuracy and detail..well everyone involved in the judging should be the only ones to tell the owner/operator that the paint job or whatever is inaccurate. We should be able to merely concur or non-concur nothing more, keep your opinions to yourself, or share them in a PM to whoever give a dayum.

Second.. Thank you all Warbird Owners/Operators....worldwide and to any curator of any static displayed aircraft....keep your goggles down and your chinstrap tightened and I look forward to seeing you at the next air show, where ever and when ever that may be.

People waste too much time worrying over the little crap that they can't see the airframe for all their own crap and hang-ups that are in the way, give it a rest already.
over. Personally, I do not care how you paint an aircraft in-so-far-as color or method (spray/brush/paint filled balloons, however you want to), couldn't give a tinkers Dayum in any way, shape, form, or fashion, Invasion Stripes, No Invasion Stripes, Don't care...I just love seeing these airframes on the flight line and in the air...God bless you for doing things right to be able to afford operating these flying machines, to include continued funding for the non flying currently under restoration / in storage / or on static display.

Now, if you are going to enter an aircraft in a contest which is one of accuracy and detail..well everyone involved in the judging should be the only ones to tell the owner/operator that the paint job or whatever is inaccurate. We should be able to merely concur or non-concur nothing more, keep your opinions to yourself, or share them in a PM to whoever give a dayum.

Second.. Thank you all Warbird Owners/Operators....worldwide and to any curator of any static displayed aircraft....keep your goggles down and your chinstrap tightened and I look forward to seeing you at the next air show, where ever and when ever that may be.

People waste too much time worrying over the little crap that they can't see the airframe for all their own crap and hang-ups that are in the way, give it a rest already.

[Randy Haskin]

"Blasphemed". That's cute.

So, if you have enough $ to own/operate a warbird, it makes you a "god"?

And when people have an opinion about what you do with it, it is "blasphemy"?

Oh, brother....

[Jollygreenslugg]

I had to chuckle at the blasphemy analogy.

Being involved with the historic aviation field for a while, I've found that people who own and maintain old aircraft have pretty thick skins. Whether their warbird is exactly as it (or another one) was on April 17, 1944 or June 27, 1968 doesn't really matter. I don't think any of them cry themselves to sleep when people comment on the colour scheme of the aircraft in question.

Mind you, I agree that the one who pays the bills is the one who calls the shots. Suggestions may be welcomed, they may not be. That's up to the private owner of the aircraft in question.

Spitfire P9374 is stunning. So is a 60s civillian-schemed Mustang. I own neither, so I just enjoy looking at them both.

Cheers,
Matt

[ChrisDNT]

There is one unavoidavable parameter.
If something is shown to the public, one must admit it will be criticize, no matter what you do or what you think, it will be criticize.
If you don't accept critics, just don't show anything.

About nose arts, no, there are not too much nose arts, there are too much not good modern designed nose arts.
Thinking for instance at the P-38, there are hundreds and hundreds of amazingly period nosearts which could be available as possible decorations for a WWII warbird owner with taste.

And a warbird doesn't need at any cost a WWII finish to be amazingly cool, there are for example "executive" Mustangs from the 60-70' which are just looking beautiful.
A bare-metal P-51 without any markings is also beautiful by itself.

[Obergrafeter]

Thank you Jack for agreeing with me!

[Russ Blow]

too many invasion stripes,

Negative Ghostrider! I can never see too many D-Day stripes!


Chappie

I was thinking of painting some on my Cessna 140 too!

[PinecastleAAF]

When I hear Mr. Weeks operation critiqued I have to chuckle because as someone else pointed out Ed Maloney was regularly dissed by a certain rag back in the day for preserving old aircraft. Fast forward 30 years.

[Taylor Stevenson]

I think my biggest gripe is about museums and owners who say there honoring the great
men who flew and maintained these machines. At the same time the paint job(s) is way
out there. If you're not doing it right is it really honoring or just saying the words and patting
yourself on the back??

Jack,
I know paint jobs are your niche, so this isn't intended to be an offensive remark, but they aren’t as critical to the teaching/honoring process as you and others would like to believe. That's obviously my opinion and I know you, others, and especially the model builders will disagree.


It is the sight, smell, sound of a Merlin screaming by that draws crowds to airshows, not whether or not that Mustang has the proper overspray on its stencils or if the bugs on the leading edge are of the proper vintage. To say that all of those entities, whether a museum or private owners, are not honoring the fallen and those who served our country in a trying time just for the simple fact that the paint job isn't as accurate as you'd like it, is just absurd. Letting future generations see these aircraft in flight and telling them the stories surrounding these aircraft are the ways we can honor those men. True, there are some that consider these aircraft to be toys, but you could have a pink Mustang with Pepto Bismol on the side and it would still be an effective tool in teaching WWII history. I tried as hard as possible to paint the L-5 properly, but my dedication to preserving history is no different than some of those with polished and flashy Mustangs or B-25s with Chevron pasted on the side. We're all here for the purpose of preserving history. Some fly the aircraft, some research the authenticity, and some do both. But you don't need to be in the "both" category to be preserving history and honoring the past.

[mustangdriver]

I sort of sat back on this topic, but here is the thing. There seems to be confussion on what is allowed, and what is right. If a guy buys a P-51 and decides to paint it pink with a picture of Liza Minnelli on it, it is his right to do so. Of course it is it is his airplane. Does that make it right? No. If I want to go to work dressed like Batman I can do that because it is my right. But does that make it right? No. The Tigercat recently questioned looks cool. Is it how I would paint my Tigercat? No. But I am happy that it is still with us and flying. If Mr. Lewis asked me face to face what I thought of the paint job (why he would want my opinion god only knows) I would tell him that it is cool, different, and I am glad he is keeping 'em flying, but that I am more a fan of the traditional paint schemes. THere is nothing mean about that. There is nothing that would make someone not post here because we are not a fan of a current scheme. Also, Telling someone that they can not have an opinion on something because hey don't own it is crazy. Should that carry on into sports? I didn't see anything too nasty posted here. If you guys think this is bad, try taking an old car to a car show.
Warbird Owners are not gods, they are every day folks that enjoy aircraft and like to fly them. Some are huge into honoring vets, and other like to honor vets, but have a warbird mainly because they enjoy to fly it. And there is nothing wrong with either one. We should respect them just as we should every other member here.
As far as paintschemes not being educational, I disagree. I think they are more important than anything. Every aspect of the paint job can tell a story. names, kill markings, insignias, group logos, and everything else tells a story of the veteran. It is also what people identify with. The snarling sharks mouth of a P-40, the bathing suit on a gal on the nose of a B-17, or the name given to a B-25. Paint schemes also matter a good bit when there is more than one. I will give you an example, if the CAF P-40 was parked on a ramp at an airport, folks would be all over it. It's a P-40! Cool! However park a P-40 next to it that has a correct paint scheme and that traffic goes away. Want proof? I saw this happen in person at Oshkosh a few years back when it was parked next to the Grand Champion P-40. That being said, I am still thrilled that the CAF operates that P-40. Everyone gripes about the sharks mouths on them, but it is how the P-40 is best known, and how it can best educate others.
My simple advice:
Treat everyone with respect and try to be helpful with conversation about paint jobs. I mean more than, "That sucks."
Don't go to work dressed like Batman then expect everyone to take you seriously.
And just a fitting quote, "Your car is a piece of sh*t. Don't worry though. I don't even have a piece of sh*t, I have to envy yours."-Ferris Bueler

[The Inspector]

And then there's John Lanes who took a beautiful CORSAIR to, Reno (?) and failed to win grand champion because one judge said 'it's not painted correctly, it should be three toned' this worthy would not allow a foolish and trivial item like the FACTORY paint order that showed it was finished in the factory correct overal gloss blue to change his opinion-

[Jack Cook]

I friend of mine beat John Lane with his L-4 Grasshopper. I have to say that the L-4 was perfect.
Better yet he did it all himself!! The FG was beautiful but that L-4 done by a CPA was special!

and the paint job is important. It's has big a part of history and tells maybe even more of the story
than the a/c itself. My friend's old P-51D N115H Never Miss was originally named Detroit Miss. Drew
was not happy with the paint scheme (way out there but nicely done) and asked the name be removed.
It still flies real good though

Last edited by Jack Cook on Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.