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Classic Wings Magazine WWII Naval Aviation Research Pacific Luftwaffe Resource Center
When Hollywood Ruled The Skies - Volumes 1 through 4 by Bruce Oriss


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:40 pm 
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Just got forwarded this email from Doug Rozendaal tonight, sent in the wake of Art Vance's death this past weekend.

Read and heed.

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All,

You are receiving this because you are in my address book and you have some affiliation with Warbirds, or someone else forwarded it to you because are in the Warbird community. (Please pass this on to your friends in our
business.)

I have spoke about Warbird accidents at NWOC, CAF, EAA, ICAS and just about anywhere I could get Warbird pilots to listen. I have shown informal data that says over the last 10 years, an average of 10 people die each year in Warbird accidents and 2 of those deaths are in CAF airplanes.

Most of you know by now that Art Vance was killed last weekend. Art's accident started me thinking about our losses this year so I looked up the fatal NTSB reports. Guess what? Arts accident is a sad milestone. We have now made our 2006 numbers. 10 deaths, two of them in the CAF. Let's use Arts death to cause us to pause and look in the mirror for a moment.

Why is this so predictable? Why do we keep doing this? None of these people planned to die. Can any of us say that we haven't done any low altitude maneuvering this year? Can any of us say that we haven't missed a checklist item, or just skipped the checklist completely, this year? Can any of us say that we haven't pushed the weather this year? Can any of us say that we haven't done a show off zoom climb on take-off this year? Have any of us flown when we were "rusty" in a particular type of airplane, maybe we didn't read the book as well as we should have the night before? My hand is not up.

Anyone who responds to this information by thinking about the other people who need to fix what they do wrong, is missing the point. Because we fly these airplanes, we are all part of the problem and the pilot we have the most control over is the one in the mirror. Figuring out what the "other"
pilots need to do, is not what is needed here.

There are three historic common themes among warbird accidents, judgment, proficiency and recurrent training. Maintenance is an issue, but flying a broken airplane is really just poor judgment. Mechanical failure not related to poor maintenance does occur, but very seldom.

My apologies to anyone who was offended because they are so good, they can be no better. That should be a pretty small group. The rest of us have to figure out how to do better. What has the pilot in the mirror done, to improve, especially the contributing factors, judgment, proficiency, and recurrent training, this year?

Lets put this in Warbird pilot language. "If ya always do what ya always
done, you'll always get what ya always got." We got 10 dead friends every
year, and that ain't cuttin' it.

Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal

5-9-05 T-6 Kissimmee FL, Structural Failure, 2 Fatal
5-28-05 Stearman Taylor TX, Power Line, 1 Fatal
6-16-05 PT-26 Williamson GA, Downwind T/O, 2 Fatal
7-23-05 Yak 52 Claremore OK, Airshow Roll on T/O 1 Fatal
7-26-05 P-51 Malone WI, Maneuvering Flight, 1 Fatal
8-3-05 BT-13 Lyme NH, Stall on T/O 2 Fatal
10-8-05 F-6F Cookville TN, Unknown 1 Fatal


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:48 am 
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Doug is spot on. I'm sick and tired of unnecessary accidents. Much sorrow to all when they occur.


Last edited by Oscar Duck on Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Great Post
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:15 am 
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Great Post. Words to live by.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:59 am 
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and this - L29 in South Africa a couple of weeks ago.. :(

VEREENIGING
Two killed in airshow crash

Sat, 10 Sep 2005
The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) said on Saturday it would investigate the cause of a jet crash which left two people dead in Vereeniging.

CAA spokesperson Gilbert Twala said four jets from the Sasol team were performing stunts at a Vereeniging airstrip in front of a crowd on Saturday morning.

While the jets were flying towards the crowd, one of them banked towards the left and went down.

"As the jets flew towards the crowd one of them must have lost height. We will investigate the height and speed of the jet at the time of the crash," Twala said.

Gareth Stadler, a spokesperson for the emergency services company ER 24, said it was uncertain what had caused the accident.

"The pilot might have lost control. We cannot say for sure what happened," he said.

Sasol spokesperson Johan van Rheede said the company extended its condolences to the team and the families of those who were killed.

Sapa

9


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:12 am 
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We have lost way too many planes and priceless people in the past few years. If we want to keep these warbirds flying, we can't loose 7+ planes and people per year.

So don't do anything stupid up there.

Eric

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:28 am 
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Eureka181 wrote:
So don't do anything stupid up there.


The quote we use in the fighter community is "Don't do anything dumb, dangerous, or different."

Unfortunately, there are many warbird pilots/owners who don't seem to have a safety focus with their operations or maintenance programs.

I think Doug's thought process, that all owners and operators need to look at *themselves* to gauge where they are is spot on. Sticking your head in the dirt and saying 'it won't happen to me' has never saved anyone's life or equipment.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:56 am 
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I have not been real active with the WW2 Warbird scene in recent years, but I have been around some the best Warbird drivers, & some of the worst, as far as a safety aspect is concerned. I will not name people or specific airplanes, but I have observed some pretty F-Uped attudes where just plane good sense should have been the answer. Examples; "come on we can fly it one more airshow season till we get enough money to do the work needed", " Ive seen it do that before but it will clear up & run right after we been airborne about an hour, it always does", "weather is looking a little scuzzy but we better get going or we won't make it before the wavier goes in affect", "I been smelling fuel on about the last three flights but I ain't had a chance to check it out, glad that line broke on the ground, now we know where it was coming from", & one of the best "hey man don't worry I do this all the time". I swear I didn't make up any of that, & yes I have ridden around in some junk with jackasses in my younger days. It just breaks my heart to hear of an accident, espically when it involves good pilots in good equipment. I think back at those examples I posted & wonder how nothing ever happened to those guys. I hope everybody will stop, do a self check with some soul searching & maby we can get this high accident rate under control. Just my two cents.
Regards To All
Blue Skies To Those We Have Lost
Robbie :!:

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Last edited by Robbie Stuart on Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:06 am 
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Yes, we should all look at the way we fly and operate our warbirds. Safety should always be #1.

Eric

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 2:12 pm 
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Well said everyone. WHen I was a 18 serving in the Marines as an aircraft plane captain, I remember the Navy had a lot of goofy posters on the walls regarding safety. Later when a crew chief in the Air Guard I noticed the Air Force had their eqivalent postings. They seemed pretty silly back then but I realize now their importance. Some of them are;

1) "Safety is no accident" and "Let's not meet by accident" with two t-38's in a collision.
2) "Risk takers are accident makers"
3) " You will perform in war/ an emergency as you performed in training"
4) and a Captain, a vietnam vet told us "prior planning prevents piss-poor performance." The 5 "P"s.
5) Those who fail to plan, plan to fail"
Some civilian ones I keep in mind are;
"You can get killed just as easy as a passenger as you can the pilot" of an aircraft.
2) "The F.A.R.'s are written in blood"
Does anyone know any others?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:56 pm 
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Correct me if I'm wrong here.
Wasn't there a TF-51 crash within the last few years where the pilot flew regularly with a fairly severe coolent leak. He just kept dumping Prestone in before every flight. One flight (the last!) the engine seized and he crashed and burned.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:32 pm 
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Folks we have to take this stuff seriously. Egos are out and flight safety is in..
Aircraft serviceability, weather, pilot proficiency, "airshow" = "showoff" together with health and well being can all be killers.

Don't forget the safety equipment [helmets/nomex/gloves etc]...


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:34 pm 
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Sure is a lot of good input from all on this subject. Safety has to be a mindset and almost a way of life. Business as usual and the attitude that "we've always done it that way", or "it'll be allright!" are exactly what gets you in trouble and people hurt. Lord knows I've been guilty of the low altitude antics, zoom climbs and the such in my Citabria.

A few years back the ole USAF was having some problems, we blew a 135 up at Tinker where I work, there were several accidents and everyone stepped back.... We had a standdown day to go over all that had happened, review our procedures, and talk to one another.... The Navy had the same thing a few years back when all the F-14s were having problems and such.

It's a shame there can't be a universal e-mail button to send out and converse with ALL the pilots and crews of the birds we all love so much. I don't know the answer to this problem, but I know that the guys I see and hear on this forum seem to be one step up on getting the word out about safety and promoting healthy warbird activity. Get the word out to all you know. If you see something you don't agree with, speak up! Take care of your friends and be a good WINGMAN. We started that program this year and it's just like the pilot-copilot thing. Speak up if it feels wrong. Take care of your friends. Be pro-active.
I dearly love the warbirds and will never tire of seeing them in their element, but I realize that a lot of hard work and loads of money has gotten them to that point. And it will take a lot of hard work and money and a strict safety regimin to keep them there. God Bless all of you in that endeavor.... Tailwinds, Steve.

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 Post subject: Re: ???
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 5:50 pm 
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Jack Cook wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong here.
Wasn't there a TF-51 crash within the last few years where the pilot flew regularly with a fairly severe coolent leak. He just kept dumping Prestone in before every flight. One flight (the last!) the engine seized and he crashed and burned.



Yes.....Sept 1997.

John


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:30 pm 
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every personal fatality is a tragedy beyond the scope of the heart, & the loss of an operational warbird is an irreplaceable loss of history inwhich the atrittion rate is expanding daily. the average ww 2 bird was not built or meant to be built to take the g's & stresses 60 + years after the conflict. they need to be babied a alot, & let loose to cut loose in a limited way. i'm just happy listening to those engines purr. i don't need stunts, immelmanns, barrell rolls etc. i just appreciate the fact that they are flying. you can inspect them with a fine toothed comb, but there is always a gray area that could be missed or not realized. to the people who still fly em..... i respect your guts & enthusiasm, but everything gets pushed eventually to it's physical limits, other than old cars, old 57 chevys etc. were talking entirely different stresses their. alot of birds are 1 of a kind, but so is every person that risks flying them!! best, tom

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:48 pm 
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Doug, your words are well spoken, as always. Though the years I have seen a lot of these, and a lot more should have not happened. You have to be on your game and bring some more when you fly them. Even a J-3 will kill you, slowly. As you mentioned in the past, the ego needs to stay on the ramp.

Cheers,

Lynn Allen


Last edited by Lynn Allen on Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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