Finding planes in the Zuider Zee

Pat Carry · **Posted:** Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:10 am

Are planes still being found today in the Zuider Zee in Holland? I remember seeing in one of my B-17 books a photo of a fully intact B-17 (I think the name of the plane was Dinah Mite) found standing magnificently on its gear after one of the ploders as they are called, was drained of water. As I recall this took place in the 1970's as the warbird movement was in its infancy but yet the B-17 was scrapped! I dont suppose something that dramatic will be found but how about pieces of aircraft?

The Inspector · **Posted:** Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:16 am

About the only thing worse for aluminum than brackish water would be a dunk in mercury, so even though I remember that photo and article, I'd bet up close the airframe looked like grandmas finest lace tablecloth.

TonyM · **Posted:** Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:35 am

Pat Carry wrote:

Are planes still being found today in the Zuider Zee in Holland? I remember seeing in one of my B-17 books a photo of a fully intact B-17 (I think the name of the plane was Dinah Mite) found standing magnificently on its gear after one of the ploders as they are called, was drained of water. As I recall this took place in the 1970's as the warbird movement was in its infancy but yet the B-17 was scrapped! I dont suppose something that dramatic will be found but how about pieces of aircraft?

The B-17 was not found sitting on its landing gear--it was found on its belly with the landing gear in the retracted position.

An excellent photo of this 452nd Bomb Group B-17 (42-37950) can be found on page 27 of FLYING FORTRESS -- The Boeing B-17 by Ernest R. McDowell

TM

cooper9411 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:43 am

If anyone wants to find a B-17 these days they should start looking in the fjords of Norway.

cooper9411 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:45 am

or even in the Gulf of Mexico where the military after the war used numerous B-17's for remote controlled ditchings. Rumor has it that these ditchings were only a few miles from shore, salt water would have done a number on them. :drink3:

Sutts · **Joined:** Tue Apr 28, 2009 3:16 pm **Posts:** 48

I seem to remember someone involved in Zuider Zee recoveries (Cees I think) saying that the water is fresh. Makes sense as the dykes have isolated the water from the sea for years now.

There have been some nice looking parts recovered but nothing substantial as far as I'm aware. The water is quite shallow so fishing nets may have broken up the structures over the years?

I have a video showing an intact B-24 being exposed from the mud for recovery of the bodies in the 70's. Unfortunately the military then blew it up as it was a shipping hazard! They do seem to love destroying and scrapping stuff over there.

Dave Lindauer · **Posted:** Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:30 pm

Back in the early 70s "Control Column" magazine (I think) chronicled a efforts of the RNethAF recovery group from Gilze Rijen air base, who sought out and recovered the remains of numerous airframes from the IJsselmeer (formerly the Zuider Zee), some of which were quite substantial airframes, both German and Allied. Most of these were scrapped, but I believe that some relics were preserved.

Just a guess, but I presume that the primary objectives were to recover crew remains and ordinance, and remove hazards to navigation as the lake level fell. (I went far out into the lake in a small boat in 1974 and was able to touch the bottom with a boat hook.)

There were other articles published back in the 70s (maybe one or two in Air Classics?).

I assume that a Google search would turn up some information on the Dutch Air Force recovery effort.

Pat Carry · **Posted:** Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:55 pm

TonyM wrote:

Pat Carry wrote:

Are planes still being found today in the Zuider Zee in Holland? I remember seeing in one of my B-17 books a photo of a fully intact B-17 (I think the name of the plane was Dinah Mite) found standing magnificently on its gear after one of the ploders as they are called, was drained of water. As I recall this took place in the 1970's as the warbird movement was in its infancy but yet the B-17 was scrapped! I dont suppose something that dramatic will be found but how about pieces of aircraft?

The B-17 was not found sitting on its landing gear--it was found on its belly with the landing gear in the retracted position.

An excellent photo of this 452nd Bomb Group B-17 (42-37950) can be found on page 27 of FLYING FORTRESS -- The Boeing B-17 by Ernest R. McDowell

TM

Thanks for the correction. I just looked at the photo in the book you mentioned. What a shame it was scrapped.

DaveM2 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:51 pm

Yes, Cees is your guy, however he doesn't post here any more. There are wrecks they are working on, IIRC including an inverted Lanc. Certainly likely that many more will be discovered, but a long slow process.

There was great article on the Dutch AF recovery work in one of the 'After the Battle' magazines back in the 80s

Dave

John Dupre · **Posted:** Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:57 pm

I remember an article in a completely non history or military magazine from the early 1970s that showed all kinds of stuff being brought up then from the polders. One photo was of a very damaged Ju 88. More recently I remember another article where the remains of a Gotha bomber from WW1 were recovered, not much left of that I am afraid.

RAMC181 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:51 pm

If you ever come across a copy, the documentary "Some of our Airmen are No Longer Missing" is worth a viewing.
I've got it on VHS somewhere, must dig it out.

Matt Gunsch · **Posted:** Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:04 pm

this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTpAXE4WIJM

The Inspector · **Posted:** Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:04 pm

Thank you for posting that Matt, I found it very enlightening

cooper9411 · **Posted:** Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:09 am

Matt thanks for the link. Very good piece. :drink3:

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Finding planes in the Zuider Zee

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