First Through The "Sound Barrier"!?!?

phil65 · **Posted:** Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:01 pm

mustangdriver wrote:

I think you are close to the target there. But that doesn't give us the right to change history because we don't like someone. What if Babe Ruth was a jerk? Should we just down play his greatness as a ball player. Just because some one isn't liked doesn't mean that we have the right to take away their accomplishments.

The Babe was a great guy when he was with the Sox, but then he went to the Yankees and became an A-hole.

Sox in 2012,
Phil

mike furline · **Joined:** Wed May 05, 2004 3:45 pm **Posts:** 2635

bipe215 wrote:

And I've never, in 45 years of going to airshows ever heard someone claim they heard a sonic boom.

I heard a sonic boom at an airshow. Reno, early 90's. An F-16 broke it, by accident of course. :wink:

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:39 pm

mike furline wrote:

bipe215 wrote:

And I've never, in 45 years of going to airshows ever heard someone claim they heard a sonic boom.

I heard a sonic boom at an airshow. Reno, early 90's. An F-16 broke it, by accident of course. :wink:

When we toured the show circuit with the 123 in the late 90's we heard people claim to have heard it every weekend.

jmkendall · **Posted:** Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:42 am

As a kid growing up at Mare Island Naval Shipyard in the 60s we used to hear sonic booms with some regularity. When we first heard them we had no idea what they were. However; one of friends brother was a Naval Pilot and stationed at NAS Alameda; or at least on board a Ship home ported there.

One day we were at his house and heard the booms and asked his brother LT Parmatier if he knew what they were and he explained that they were conducting exercises off the Coast and that what we heard were the planes going super sonic.

As I said, quite common in the mid/late 60s in Northern California.

jmkendall · **Posted:** Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:55 am

This discussion reminds me of an Article I read in a Shotgun News about the dispute that arose concerning a 900 yard shot by an 19th century Buffalo hunter using a Hawkins .50 cal; against an Indian on a horse.

It turns out a bunch of Engineers at the Yakima (?) Range wrote a paper proving in precise detail that such a shot was literally impossible. How it was outside the range of the weapon and powder of the day. They even had an appendix of Equations to support their Proof.

A modern day re-enactor took exception and was brought out to the range where a target was set up at the required distance....and you guessed; the marksman knocked it down time and time again.

Bottom line, just because it is not official does not mean it did not happen.

rreis · **Joined:** Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:42 pm **Posts:** 441

JDK wrote:

For those who loathe Yeager, there's comfort in that the achievement did not count as an internationally recognised speed record with the Fédération Aéronautique Internationale (FAI) because the X-1 was not a self-launched aircraft capable of taking off and getting the record in the same flight, a base requirement for such pure speed (not the barrier) aeronautical records.

Hi JDK. I'm interested in this point, did the FAI changed the rules afterwards, like they did for Gagarine? I mean, in Gagarine case they had to be changed to accommodate the fact that going to space isn't really the same has flying a plane. Maybe something akin to this happened with the X1? I don't know, just asking.

JDK · **Posted:** Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:49 am

Yuri Gagarin? I don't know, to be honest - one it's into space I lose interest. FWIW, I don't think in that case they 'changed the rules' as much as created a new class for spacecraft?

As to Yeager's record, I think there are a set of requirements, such as being able to take off - self launched etc. - for most of the standard classifications. Yeager's recorded flight through the sound barrier, while a documented NACA first, was not an FAI recognised record. Sorry, I don't have time to check the detail, so it's up to others to clarify; I added it as a footnote to my previous remark about why documentation matters, but by some subsequent posts, it was evidently hardly worth it.

HTH.

rreis · **Joined:** Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:42 pm **Posts:** 441

Ahah, I understand you James. I think the category already existed, they changed the rules. I've tried to track it down but can't seem to find the particulars (this post is the best I got http://blog.nasm.si.edu/2010/04/12/why- ... spacecraft )

Anyway, please keep coming forward with your calls of attention. I, for once, appreciate them and surely many more on WIX do, albeit they don't make it on print

And, off course, it stays written, so long term effects should also be considered.

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:19 am

jmkendall wrote:

:D
Bottom line, just because it is not official does not mean it did not happen.

Bottom line is if you are going to claim a record, you had better be able to back it up. Welch's flight is at best a good story. Look at any first accomplishment out there. There is always someone that is out there saying "Oh I did that first".

JDK · **Posted:** Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:22 am

Interesting, thanks!

Certainly WIX is a most educational resource, and where it's good to share knowledge - in either direction.

Regards,

PhantomAce08 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:52 am

OK... so, who (and in what plane) was the first to break the "sound barrier" in level flight in a plane that could take off under it's own power and then land?

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:14 am

I would guess the D-558

Fearless Tower · **Joined:** Thu May 26, 2011 5:14 pm **Posts:** 365

jmkendall wrote:

:D This discussion reminds me of an Article I read in a Shotgun News about the dispute that arose concerning a 900 yard shot by an 19th century Buffalo hunter using a Hawkins .50 cal; against an Indian on a horse.

It turns out a bunch of Engineers at the Yakima (?) Range wrote a paper proving in precise detail that such a shot was literally impossible. How it was outside the range of the weapon and powder of the day. They even had an appendix of Equations to support their Proof.

A modern day re-enactor took exception and was brought out to the range where a target was set up at the required distance....and you guessed; the marksman knocked it down time and time again.

Bottom line, just because it is not official does not mean it did not happen.

I'd be suprised any 'science' type would doubt that.......900 yards is child's play for many 19th century .50 cal rifles....Sharps rifles were known to shoot 1200 yds to over a mile.

The Inspector · **Posted:** Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:03 pm

Let's see if I can get this to post on the third try-

The D558-1 wasn't capable of Mach 1 because of it's weak jet engine and straight wings coupled with a very long straight fuselage well before Whitcomb's area rule was well known. Marion Carl got it to 650.8 once over the Salton Sea course.
The D-558-2 SKY ROCKET originally had both a jet engine and an XLR-11, so it could takeoff on it's own power and stagger into the air where the jet would run out of fuel and the rocket engine was fired, I believe it could get close to Mach 1 or just over. after the jet systems were removed and the 558-2 was made a dedicated pure rocket powered dropped aircraft it became a real work horse and race horse. Scott beat CY to 2+ in it and CY about killed himself in the X-1B (the 32,000 ft tumble) beating Scott's record.
For some reason, CY had an intense dislike of Scott and poo-pooed everything he did, I'm sure Scott getting to 2 first was part of it, maybe it was the fact that Scott was a civilian who worked for NACA. Later on Scott got the X-15 to 3+ on a contractors proving flight when CY couldn't because he wasn't in the test flight system any more, and I'm sure that put a permanent wrinkle in his banana.
When Scotty died a few years ago, CY made some mildly abrasive and pretty negative comments about their 'rivalry' to a local TV station and newspaper, at which point my already negative opinion of CY went out the bottom of the graph.

The F-100 was the first fighter I'm aware of that would do 1+ in level flight.

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:32 pm

Once again all of this goes back to those who don't like Yeager. Like it or not, it took balls to strap on that X-1 and light the candle. Also it took a team to get there. Something that those who ride this great tale of Welch never bother to think about. The X-1 team took great pride in the record. That includes engineers, chase pilots, drop pilots, and everyone else. People died trying to break the sound barrier. And one guy does it, but we don't want to give him credit because he won't sign your model plane. That is just nuts. People talk about his ego, are you kidding me. I watch TV with my wife, and see these shows with friggin Snooki and what not, people that have egos 10 times bigger than Yeager and yet the have done nothing. Sorry I just don't agree with trying to rewrite history because we like that version better.

Warbird Information Exchange

First Through The "Sound Barrier"!?!?

Who is online