Warbird Information Exchange

I came up with about 15 serial numbers of 'unknown or un-named' 384th a/c that made the move to Istres on the BG's website which has photos of several 'lightning bolt' B-17's matching this mystery ship. So its almost certainly one of those. Thanks again everyone for the help.

I did rescan the hatch area, but my old scanner wouldn't let me get much better resolution.




Steve

Check out this Casablanca photo from the 384th's website. Looks like the same type of truck backed up to the rear hatch and the uniforms may match those of the guys loading the front hatch in my Dad's photo.

http://www.gallery2.384thbombgroup.com/ ... +.jpg.html

It certainly does look like that.

Steve

"TriangleP" figured it out. The 384th's website has several pictures of the Istres ships painted that way.

Steve

I think every area had something unpleasant about it. The mud at the Foggia airbases was horrible. I wish now I had asked my Dad why he made the flights from Foggia to Istres. It was after most of the Casablanca flights were over with.
I talked with Fred at the 384th website site and will be sending him a better scan of 'Helyn Ann' tonight.

Steve

Note to bipe--

Be careful about presuming that the problem is completely resolved. Don't forget that you're talking about the military here....nothing is ever just straight "cut and dried".

It seems to me that with so many available aircraft floating around the former combat area, that the folks planning HOMEWARD BOUND might possibly center the operation on one or two groups---but certainly add additional aircraft from other organizations.

I see the lightening bolt motif as an emblem of the HB operation rather than for a numbered group. If they needed a "logo" why not just paint Triangle P (or something else) on the tail rather than a very civilian-like fuselage stripe. The nose number on Helyn vs the other planes looks sufficiently different to me to indicate that the planes came from two different sources.

So that is a long about way to say that it is still only a 50:50 chance that Helyn was from your dads parent unit.

gtokid---EXCELLENT decipher on the hatch art!!!

I don't think there's any doubt this is a 384th ship. There were no 'common' Homebound Airlines markings I know. I think each group did their own thing. This 2nd BG ship that Dad flew on the Casablanca route had no special markings:



We may never know Helyn Ann's serial number, but she's got too many missions for there not to be some info out there.

Steve

I think that's the key, there can't be many B-17s that survived 119 missions. I can't find any list in my books or via google that shows such a 'table', which is a bit surprising. Still searching....

Great thread.

It appears that the standard serial stencil is missing from the Navigator window area. Could it be - and this is a stretch - that the original nose art was stripped (along with the stencil) and the crews who inherited this airplane for transport work applied their own?

A second question - can anyone place the hat/uniform of the man in the jeep passenger seat? The hat almost looks Navy and, on second thought, I wonder if he could be a Moroccan local? Is the number on the jeep hood definitely Army, or could it be another service?

Pathfinder reported earlier that all US Army Jeeps numbers started with 20.

Steve

A general overview of U.S. military vehicle markings can be seen at

http://www.stugiii.com/images/US_Vehicle_Markings.pdf

His list skips the 50 prefix however which would be fire apparatus.

_________________
It's you and me against the world.

We attack at dawn.

bipe--

There is absolutely nothing that guarantees this to be a 384th plane....sorry.

Show me a verifiable 384th photo of plane 6 or plane 8 and it goes to a 51:49 probability. Until you can verify something it is only a theory.

Don't take that the wrong way. I WANT you to discover this aspect of your dad's history. But you have to verify facts.

I've never suggested this aircraft was in my Dad's bomb group. He was 483rd and 2nd. This aircraft was one that he took a picture of at Casablanca.
The link at the 384th's website showing the 'Istres Fleet' with the lightning bolts shows several B-17's, and every picture that has discernable tail markings, shows a triangle P. The closest numbers to Helyn Ann are 5 and 11. So the odds are looking fairly good that she is 384th, not 100% but pretty good I would say. Not verified yet, but much closer than we were two days ago.

Steve

Yes, the list is at http://www.384thbombgroup.com/php/aircraft.php and I also found a reference (see image below) of 4 B-17s of the 384th with 100+ missions:
42-102518 Dam n Yankee 154 missions
42-32106 Snuffy/Worry Bird 136
42-39888 Hot Nuts 129
42-97251 (no name) 126.

The last one did not survive the war. I don't know how the aborts figure into the count, but a bit of rudimentary math seems to leave darn Yankee at 138, Snuffy at 121 and Hot Nuts 116. Pretty close to the shot in post#1 and a photo of Snuffy (above website) has the same long top line of symbols.

That's about as far as I can get.

I didn't know there were so many in the 100+ club, and that's just the 8th!

Steve