Grandpa Jim and the 401st BG

[Dave Smith]

This is a fantastic thread!

Paul B, when I first visited Deenethorpe back in August 1973 I called in at the farm to ask permission to wander over to the tower to take pictures. The farmer was very friendly and pointed out the approximate area where a Hangar Queen had been buried in the clear up before the USAAF moved out. He didn't use that term but it was obvious what he was talking about. I have passed this story on over the years but no one seems to have investigated with a metal detector. With all the gear like ground searching radar which you seem to have access to, would it be a possible to check out the site?

That day I picked up a .50 cal case which had been fired, almost certainly in action. I still have it as a treasured relic. I also found a chunk of shrapnel close to where Rosie's Sweat Box crashed on take off.

[Ken]

Paul, would you please share with us how you got to be so involved with the 401st and a little more about your duties as historian?

[RAMC181]

I've been wandering about on Deenethorpe airfield since I was little, as it's only 7 miles away and there was a lot more remaining than the closer Grafton Underwood airfield.
My Great-grandfather was even invited with his band to "entertain" the 401st guys on base.
However, it was a Scottish (bag)pipe band and looking at the photos I don't think some of them really liked the sound...

Historical research is one of my hobbies, and as a member of the 401BGHS I'm one of the "boots on the ground" in the UK for the 401BG Association's official historian, my good friend Don Byers.
The 401BG Forum is a great tool for passing information back and forth too, especially as it's now tied in to the Association website directly so all the pages can be accessed at the click of a mouse.

All the best,
PB

[RAMC181]

Paul B, when I first visited Deenethorpe back in August 1973 I called in at the farm to ask permission to wander over to the tower to take pictures. The farmer was very friendly and pointed out the approximate area where a Hangar Queen had been buried in the clear up before the USAAF moved out. He didn't use that term but it was obvious what he was talking about. I have passed this story on over the years but no one seems to have investigated with a metal detector. With all the gear like ground searching radar which you seem to have access to, would it be a possible to check out the site?

Sorry Dave, I missed your post first time around.

I'm guessing this was around the top end of the technical site, near the Grange?
It would certainly be interesting to run the magnetometer over the area, as long as the caravan store hasn't spread to cover it.

All the best,
Paul

[JohnCFord]

Very good thread! Thanks for sharing!!!

~J~

[Dave Smith]

Hi Paul. Looking at GE, I don't think the burial site has been covered by the caravan (trailer!) park. It was either in the field in front of the farm or a bit further to the north. It looks like part of the caravan park has used the base of the hangar which appears in the famous Deenethorpe in the snow photo. I'm pretty sure the farmer wasn't just telling a tall story. We may have the complete hulk of a combat veteran here or maybe just a lot of corroded metal. Only one way to find out ...

[Ken]

the famous Deenethorpe in the snow photo.

Has this photo been on WIX yet?

[Dave Smith]

It may have been on WIX at some time, Ken, but will probably take a long search. I have Googled around and found it here. Just scroll down.
Dave

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=78&f=1414&t=7800467

[RAMC181]

615th Bomb Squadron dispersals from the roof of the control tower, 12 January 1945:



A couple of closeups to show the buildings in the background.





1: Gunnery Training Blister Hangar
2: Blast Shelter
3: Pyrotechnics Store
4: Hangar 1 (450th Sub-Depot main repair hangar, note the finless B-17 to the left)
5: Latrine block





6: Electrical Sub-Station
7: Squadron Offices
8: Briefing Rooms
9: Radar Workshop
10: Grange Farm
11: Works Services Compound
12: Pyrotechnics Store

All the best,
PB

[Dave Smith]

Thanks, Paul. I should have waited for you to post the real deal!

In 1973, there was a small building out on the field to the west of the tower. Inside was painted HELP KEEP THIS LATRINE CLEAN. I'm sorry now that I didn't photograph it.

[RAMC181]

Ta Dave,

There was a really nice big "Do NOT dump trash here" in a shield painted on the wall of the briefing room at Grafton Underwood until it was partially demolished a couple of years ago.

PB

[RAMC181]

Back to the ground crew photo, taken at the end of January 1945:

I just got a reply from Grandpa Jim...

He said the man on the left is M/Sgt C. H. Brown, known as "Brownie" and he was the ground crew chief.
The man who is right center is Corporal C.S. Smith, a member of the ground crew. Jim thinks the man who is left center is Sgt F. Able, member of the ground crew (but is somewhat unsure if he is that person), and could not identify the 4th man.

In addition, a copy of this photo was stuck inside a copy of "Serenade to the Big Bird" that Jim once signed for me as a gift. On the back of the photo he wrote, "After each mission, I taxied off the runway - stopped - and "Brownie" my crew chief would get in - come up to the cockpit and ask 'How the old bird that day fly? (sic)' "

It pains me to think of the stories and experiences that are lost forever when we lose these veterans. Getting him to identify some of the men in the photo is a minor thing but I think it matters.

Checking my ground crew notes I have the following assigned '993:
M/Sgt. Curtis H. Brown (Crew Chief)
Sgt. Felix R. Abel
Sgt. John B. Aloi
Cpl. Claire S. Smith

All the best,
PB

I've just got home from the 401BG reunion in Colorado Springs, and was honoured to have been able to have a number of long chats with the aforementioned Felix Abel who is one of the fittest 90-odd year-olds I've ever met.
He was one of the first guys assigned to the group when it was activated in Montana, and was one of the last to be reassigned when it was deactivated on it's return to the USA, so "did the full life of the group" as he puts it.

One of the things he was most pointed on is that he isn't in the photo above, as he was on a pass that day.
He is in at least one other photo though, and I'll get that scanned in and posted ASAP.
He was a wealth of information, we even shared the flight to Chicago together so you can imagine how much we were chatting, and it turns out that one of the "Chute 13" ground crew was a former aircrew tail gunner who stepped back from flight duty at the start of 1944 and joined them for the duration. (I believe this particular chap is the guy directly under the nose hatch in the above photo, Cpl. Smith.)

I showed him this thread (Felix still runs the farm he was born on, and other than his WWII service has never left. Computers are a new-fangled thing to him, and the internet is "one of those things other folks talk about in the store"), and the picture of "Chute 13" being cut up, which he was most interested to see.
He said "that's just what she looked like when we drove out of the gate to come home, the war in England was over and we didn't need to patch her up any more".
After her last prang she was dragged over to the salvage dump where she was left.

Felix can be seen in his photo I took of our Veterans on saturday at the reunion, back row, 4th from the left:



Also present was one of "Chute 13"'s other tail gunners, but I'll need to check where he is in the picture.

All the best,
PB

[RAMC181]

The band for the big saturday night bash was kindly provided by the Air Force Academy at the other end of town, in who's chapel we had our memorial service the day before, and an excellent job they did too!
(A lot better than my poor photography. I blame the altitude... )



There was only a little winding-up going on when it was pointed out to them that they were wearing Army uniform rather than Air Force though...

The next regular (bi-annual) 401st reunion will be in San Diego in 2014, but to commemorate the 70th anniversary of the group's activation there will be a special reunion in August 2013, to be held in Dayon, OH.

[me109g4]

Fascinating thread so far. I met a 401st. member a few months back but i neglected to get many details, i spoke to him for about 10 mins, asked him what model B17 he flew in but he didnt remember, but he mentioned Deenethorpe as where he was stationed. He had a 401st ball cap on which is what got my attention, I thanked him for his service, which seemed to surprise him. all I know is that he was shopping at an agricultural store called Agway in keene NH. His car had Vermont plates. Hopefully I will run into him again as the store mgr. told me he is frequent customer.

[Ken]

Thanks for the update, I'll pass to Jim. Any chance that Felix could fully identify everyone in the photo??

Ken