Bearcat Accident in Breckenridge, 4/4/12

Steve S · **Posted:** Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:22 pm

Fearless Tower wrote:

Steve S wrote:

they quoted the same source that has been previoulsy brought up in this thread.

I'd say it was more a regurgitation of the prelim rather than straight quoting from the source.

Regardless- doesn't change a thing that happened. Life is too short and something could happen at anytime. Howard was one of the most accomplished pilots I had ever met- but in the end we are all human. Could he have made a mistake- sure(but I doubt it); could something physically have happned to him to cause him to black out ( my personal guess) - of course; Perhaps the airplane had a mechanical that caused a problem with the controls- most definetly. We can say or think what we want (but we can also ask for some common decorum on the board)- at the end of the day you can't un-ring the bell or put the smoke back in the chip- I am heartened to see that too date I have not seen anything negative directed at the man and we will remember him for the good he did.

Life is short folks- you are going to get it one day whether you like it or not -A friend from my church dropped dead of a heart attack last week while raking is yard. I drive the highways around DC every day and I know I would be safer during an acro routine in the back of a Bearcat or Sea Fury with Howard or any one of a number of pilots I know at the controls.

Life is for living - get to it or go hide in the corner of a dark room. When I have to go please Lord let me do it in the midst of something I love and don't let me take anyone else with me- as you did with Howard.

Stephan Wilkinson · **Joined:** Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:23 am **Posts:** 700

Quote:

I was wondering if anyone has been able to determine if the Bearcat's altimeter was set to the correct barometric pressure?

Are you a pilot?

He wasn't making an instrument approach, he was taking off VFR...what difference would it have made?

RyanShort1 · **Posted:** Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:39 pm

Stephan Wilkinson wrote:

Quote:

I was wondering if anyone has been able to determine if the Bearcat's altimeter was set to the correct barometric pressure?

Are you a pilot?

He wasn't making an instrument approach, he was taking off VFR...what difference would it have made?

In this case, from everything I've heard or been told about the accident probably nothing, but if he was doing a maneuver like the Thunderbird that crashed out west several years back, it could mean not enough altitude to recover from a maneuver.

Ryan

Stephan Wilkinson · **Joined:** Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:23 am **Posts:** 700

Quote:

if he was doing a maneuver like the Thunderbird that crashed out west several years back, it could mean not enough altitude to recover from a maneuver.

True, but he wasn't doing a maneuver that required 4,000 feet of air and he only had 3,900--which you well know, as you said. I posted my comment because the query that elicited it seemed irrelevant.

RyanShort1 · **Posted:** Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:49 pm

Stephan Wilkinson wrote:

Quote:

if he was doing a maneuver like the Thunderbird that crashed out west several years back, it could mean not enough altitude to recover from a maneuver.

True, but he wasn't doing a maneuver that required 4,000 feet of air and he only had 3,900--which you well know, as you said. I posted my comment because the query that elicited it seemed irrelevant.

It would make sense if a maneuver was being performed that the NTSB initial report suggests... but as I said, I would seriously doubt that it would be a factor from what I've heard through the grapevine. I'm sure the full story will eventually be out when the timing is appropriate. I'm not sure I look forward to hearing the full story, though. 'Tis probably best to just be patient.

For those of you who have not had the experience of seeing a plane literally crash in front of you - know that it is a sad and helpless feeling. Don't quickly or lightly criticize those like Steve and others who have posted on this thread when the don't feel like discussing the actual details publicly.

Ryan

bombadier29 · **Joined:** Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:17 pm **Posts:** 272

Stephan Wilkinson wrote:

Are you a pilot?

He wasn't making an instrument approach, he was taking off VFR...what difference would it have made?

Are you an Airshow pilot? Virtually all airshow pilots will zero their altimeter before a performance. Even just for flat passes. The idea, being sure of the air between you and the actual ground and not above sea level. It's a lot easier to judge maneuvering room that way.

I wouldn't be surprised to find that Pardue used this practice. Although I don't think it had any impact on this situation. Judging from the pictures of the accident site, I doubt anybody will ever know what the altimeter said. But I do think the original poster had a very valid question.

P51Mstg · **Joined:** Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:36 am **Posts:** 1202

Although I'm sure the altimeter setting didn't matter in the accident, one would assume that since when he took off he intended to fly somewhere and not put on a low level show, he would have set it to field elevation which would be the barometric pressure.

I think thats its hard to discredit the pilot cited in the FAA report. The FAA isn't stupid. I'm sure that pilot could describe what he saw, irrespective of the minor differences of what others saw from their points of view, I'm sure what happened wasn't significantly different.

No judgment coming from here on what happened, I can pretty much figure it out.

Mark H

Wildchild · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:18 am

Steve S wrote:

Wildchild wrote:

Sorry that you think it's good they didn't take any photo's Mr Dickey, but a photo of the wreckage or a video of the crash could help us alot.

Also, since you were an eyewitness, how much was the aircraft destroyed, and could he have bailed out? (I ask about the plane because if it's fixable it can be rebuilt to honor him)

~Chris

Who is this going to Help -the FAA already has plenty of there own pictures, and if by "us" you mean the folks on this board- hmmm- sorry to say EPIC FAIL. Please don't try to mask you own curiosity as a Public Service.

I think it is great that you have an apprecation for warbirds in your teens and wish there were many more like you out there - but there is a lot you have to learn kid.
As most of the folks that have been in the community for an extended period will probably agree(and yes I count myself a member of the community haveing spent many more hours cleaning and doing whatever work is necessary on the birds than I have actually flown in them)- at first it may be seem that it is all about the planes and the hardware- but once you trully get involved you quickly realize that they are secondary and there is a much bigger factor that drives it- the people that have made and still make it happen. If you want hardware go to the smithsonian (sorry - no dig intended to those folks lurking here but I think you see where I am going). They do a great job of static preservation and education but in the end they don't convey the heart and soul of it all. Whether dealing with the guys that flew 35 mission over Germany, the Doolittle Raider Co-pilot that would rather help you sweep the hanger than sit around and be pampered, or the Marine Veteran who spent a whole Sh## load of his own money to bring something special to people who otherwise may never seen or heard the roar of a 2800 in flight. At the end of the day all that aluminum is just that- aluminum and without the person to make it come alive it is no more valuable than an old coke can in a recycling bin. As I mentioned to one of your comments on a FB post I realize you probaly mean will but this is not the time or place to bring up such things. While I was priviled to have met and interacted with Howard at several shows, I in no way consider myslef one of the privileged few to have actually konwn him- and the unfortuante fact remains that those people are going throw a very tough time right now and need our support in any way possible. bringing up issues or questions that serve no true purpose other than to feed your own curiosty is pointless and just hurts those folks more. And those are the folks you don't want to hurt cause I can tell you from experience that when the chips are down and the sh** does hit the fan they are the ones that will be there to back you up.

Okay - step back, take minute to look at the facts, and realise that we are dealing with peoples emotions hear ( and yes pilots do have them, not always obvious). Something will come out eventuallyu and at the end of the day whatever they say happened is meaningless- doesn't change a thing, doesn't make it any easier for his family, doesn't let us go back in time.

Stepping down off my soap box for the 357th time

Well... Um... Not much I can really say, other than sorry, but I'm sure I'm not the only person here who would like to see what parts are remaining... In regard to me not caring about Mr. Pardue, that's not true. As much as we can mourn his loss, there isnt much elts we can do. We can at least be happy that he got to live to 77.

Edit: just saw a picture of the crash... Don't want to ever see another one again :cry:

Nathan · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:55 am

the wix croud don't change much. BAN crash subjects. It has caused people greif!

Fearless Tower · **Joined:** Thu May 26, 2011 5:14 pm **Posts:** 368

Nathan wrote:

the wix croud don't change much. BAN crash subjects. It has caused people greif!

You'd have to ban just about every subject...it isn't just crashes that get folks spun up here.

Problem is that the nature of the forum membership and warbird community in general is so diverse that this sort of thing is going to happen. I would say the membership of Wix is far more diverse than any other aviation related forum that I have seen.

That isn't a criticism of Wix...just an observation.

Lynn Allen · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:05 pm

No, if you fly, learn from these lessons so you won't be the next be hosted on the Wix Roast...

Lynn

marine air · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:44 pm

I haven't chimed in as Mr. Pardue goes back to the days when my dad flew airshows and I knew some of his family members very well. I am going to withhold any comment s about the man except he was irreplaceable to the airshow community and he was sincerely passionate about the planes, the military, especially the Marines and all veterans. He even kept the Wildcat long after he sold off his Corsairs because he wanted the vets that flew them at the beginning of the war to be represented. He was sincere about the historical significance.

The Bearcat was also really special. The oldest survivor, it was a prototype built in 1945. Probably at the same time the factory was cranking out the last Wildcats and Bearcats. I bet it was lighter and had better performance than the production models. It will now join the ranks of aircraft that "shouldnt have been flown because of rarity" that later got damaged or destroyed.
Whatever the cause of the accident, it will only fuel the fire for those that will say, warbirds are too old to fly, or he was too old to fly, or warbirds shouldn't do aerobatic routines, etc.

Rob Mears · **Posted:** Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:18 pm

In this particular case, I'll dare say that Mr. Pardue's contribution to the warbird and aviation community easily outclasses whatever the perceived value of that Bearcat might have been, and I'm generally a staunch soapboxer for keeping the ultra rare types on the ground. Think about how much influence Howard and his Bearcat have had on the aviation world during their many decades of public performance. Now imagine if that same plane had spent all those years silent under flourescent lights somewhere on static display (many others have). Howard maintained a vigil that has undoubtedly defined for most American show goers exactly what the lifeforce of the Bearcat truly is. Can anyone name another Bearcat on static display anywhere in the world that will carry that much influence over public perception, even if it stands vigil for another hundred years?

Imagine the anti-climax of viewing the Boeing Museum's static F2G Super Corsair if there had never been a Bob Oddegard around to breathe bright and vibrant life back into the other two surviving examples. In the end I believe we are better served honoring the soul of the machine at least as much as we honor the vessel. With close to a half-dozen Bearcats now saturating the circuit, doing a job that Mr. Pardue upheld singlehandedly for over three decades, I'd say we're fairly flush with airframes to ogle over. The XF8F-1 can now serve as a lens for remembering the man who elevated the historical relevance of that particular aircraft far beyond its otherwise obscure stint as an 'X' plane.

Red Baaron · **Joined:** Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:54 pm **Posts:** 98

Has there been any additional information come out of the Pardue crash? Has a final report ever been made public? I know there was some disagreement between eyewitness testimony but never heard the outcome.

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Bearcat Accident in Breckenridge, 4/4/12

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