The other kind of veteran ancestors

[JDK]

Many of us have veterans in the family, and in most cases are proud of them, usually rightly so. But just imagine if through an accident of birth your ancestors weren't just on 'the wrong side' but among the worst in history. How would you feel? What would you do? Are you in some way responsible for their actions? Should you ensure that you're the 'last of the line'?

Interesting article here, which I for one found pretty thought-provoking, I hope others do too. I'm sure it won't be a problem, but just a request to keep it respectful and polite, too.

Nazi legacy: The troubled descendants By Frances Cronin
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18120890

Regards,

[The Inspector]

WHEW!! What an awful thing to discover-

[lmritger]

Remarkable, emotional, and should be mandatory reading if only for the last few sentences and accompanying photo. Would that we could all show such grace and demonstrate the power of forgiveness and understanding like that camp survivor... that image and description hit me like a chair to the head. Amazingly powerful.

Thanks for this, James.

Lynn

[Mark Allen M]

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Last edited by Mark Allen M on Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:26 am, edited 3 times in total.

[Obergrafeter]

[quote="Mark Allen M"]Of course you are going to have a few others who feel a bit different

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/do ... 464204.htm[/quote
Pretty amazing girl. 66 years of age so was born in 1946,..........remembers the days after Japans surrender! Remembers Grandpa who was hanged before she was three!!! Amazing.

[mustangdriver]

As Mr. Eastwood said, "I'm all torn up about that man's rights." The poor family of Tojo had it rough. What a joke.

Ober that is that new history that Japan is making over there. Anything is possible.

[Obergrafeter]

Brought to light right here in River City. We just had our Hondo Fly-in and one of the planes on display was an Kate replica. There is a flight school on the field with Chinese (mainland) students. They were around the Kate having pictures taken and apparantly saying and doing disparaging things when observed by a Japanese National who took exception to their actions. He is probably one of these "Newly" educated Japanese who never heard of things like the rape of Nanking, or Battan death march, etc. If he has heard of Pearl Harbor probably thinks it is a made for TV fiction writing.

[mustangdriver]

This is exactly what upsets me about the Japanese attitude of WWII . This garbage. I volunteered at NMUSAF and we would get Japanese groups and that would laugh and take funny pictures with the Pearl harbor displays. We had one group that really was rough to see. My late friend Clair saw this and said, "I'll be on the other side of the building." He went and waited for them by the B-29 "Bockscar". As they got there, they were pretty silent. That is when Clair asked them all, "Hey do you guys remember this one?" They said nothing and hurried to the next hangar.
I recently had friend get married and for the honeymoon went to Hawaii. They went to Pearl Harbor, and said that the Japanese folks were acting so poorly that the tour guide even said something.
I am tired being PC about a country trying to erase a war they started, and were so brutal in, and now wants to act like nothing happened.

[shrike]

Of course you are going to have a few others who feel a bit different

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/do ... 464204.htm[/quote
Pretty amazing girl. 66 years of age so was born in 1946,..........remembers the days after Japans surrender! Remembers Grandpa who was hanged before she was three!!! Amazing.

Article is listed as UPDATED in July of 2005 so she was born in '38 or '39

[K5DH]

Pearl Harbor, and said that the Japanese folks were acting so poorly that the tour guide even said something.

My, how times have changed. When Cindy and I visited Pearl Harbor in 1986, the Japanese tourists hung their heads in shame as they read the displays and saw what their countrymen had done so many years before, and some even cried. They were so ashamed that they could scarcely look the American tourists in the eye. It was touching to witness, and in a way, I felt bad for them. I guess that's all gone by the wayside now.

[StangStung]

Very interesting topic James. I've known a couple folks who had grandparents who were German servicemen. One was a conscripted Pole of German descent, something along the lines of "you can come with us and fight the Soviets, or you can take a bullet in the head, your call." Their family didn't talk about it much.

Then I had a friend who had a pic of his granddad on the wall who was an officer in the 2nd SS Division. He was one of a very few who refused to participate in and tried to stop the massacre at Oradour-sur-Glane. He said it reminded him that the line between good people doing bad things and bad people doing good things can be a fuzzy matter. Their family discussed this part of their history pretty thoroughly. I thought that telling. To meet him, you'd think he was just a good ole boy from Texas. You never know what's lurking in the past.

With respect to Japanese tourists and their disrespectfulness, yes it happens. And the failures of the Japanese education system with respect to WWII are well noted. But I've seen some Americans abroad who embarrassed the crap out of me in the same way. And just because the guests in your house act like an a** that certainly doesn't require you to act the same way.

[Ztex]

A friend of mine's father was a corporal in the Wehrmacht. He was captured by the Americans in North Africa and brought to Texas as a POW. He is matter of fact about the subject. His dad was drafted and he was doing what his country asked of him. He was ultimately glad to be out of the conflict and loved Texas so much that he did everything he could once he returned home to come back. He was ashamed of what his country did but was proud of his service....neat guy.

An understanding of history and the contrition of the bad guys goes a long way towards the healing.

We are not to be judged on the sins of our fathers as long as we do not repeat those sins.....

[michaelharadon]

Like k5dh, I was at the Arizona in the late '80s and saw a similar scene-a number of Japanese old enough to have lived through the war were impressively solemn and respectful. I thought of the courage it took for them to be there.

Air And Space had (has?) a Zero very close to a gallery and one time I watched three couples take every possible combination of photos that you can with six people using the Zero as the back drop.

It would be very nice to know that our text and history books are as accurate as we would like them to be, written with out political or religious agenda...

[seabee1526]

http://www.military.com/news/article/towns-monument-upsetting-japanese-officials.html?ESRC=navy-a.nl

Here is another that I found today

[JDK]

Gentlemen, thanks for the on topic responses - as I'd hoped, some found it thoughtful.

The idea of the thread is to think about what it might be like to be in a very uncomfortable pair of shoes, NOT another round of a different argument. If you don't want to or won't consider what it would be like to have Himmler or Goering or similar in your family, fine, but please don't divert the thread into throwing bricks at others' moral failings.

By all means start another thread on the Japanese history issue. It's a tricky subject, but it's not this subject. Please don't continue that discussion here.

Thanks for your understanding.

Regards,